"I see stupid people!" - Not taking Antiquity seri

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salvete omnes!

Since most of us here are fond of Antiquity, I guess we all have seen a good number of movies on the Ancients, read books, saw tv shows or went to plays. A regulary circulating forward or joke on the internet bundles all mistakes made by students in history classes, including mistakes on Antiquity. Now my question is: what's the dumbest thing you've ever heard someone say about Antiquity? It can be in real life, in a movie, a gross misrepresentation in a book, etc etc...

As for me, I recently watched "The last Crusade" again, the third Indiana Jones movie and probably the best from the series. Now there's this part where Indiana reads a tablet that is written in Latin in the living room of Donovan. The tablet deals with the location of the Holy Grail. Indiana mumbles "This is early Latin, 12th century." Later on in the movie, when he and Elsa are wandering around the tomb of the crusaders in Venice, Elsa Schneider (who is supposed to be a doctor, just like Indy, no less), cleverly remarks "look, pagan symbols... 6th century!".

But the movie that probably tops them all when it comes to historical inaccuracies is "Amazons and Gladiators", the cash-in on the success of "Gladiator".
- The male protagonist's name is CrassIus, a certain consul in the East by Caesar (not "the" Caesar) in 60 AD (Crassus, as he is actually called, was already dead for 120 years by then).
- The province is called "Pannè" (which never existed) and for being in the east, it looks remarkably Germanic, as do most of the characters in the movie
- The people there pay with "dinars".
- People in the movie have names like "Gwyneth"
- The movie's epilogue ends with the grotesque message "Soon after, the Roman Empire would fall".

Valete!
Draco

[Horatius Piscinus]

Hm, I'm sure I can come up with a few stupid things said about antiquity. Most recent though was seeing the film of Geo. B. Shaw's "Caesar and Cleopatra". Whoever cast Claude Rains as Caesar was certainly stupid, imho. did like Vivian Leigh though. And before that I took in an exhibition, supposedly of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a private exhibition, not one at a museum, funded by some Bible study group. Worst exhibit I've been to yet. Some church group was there for a tour, and whoever this person was that acted as their guide didn't know anything of antiquity, even the misrepresentations taken from the Bible he got wrong. Oh, and "The Passion of THE Christ" was a hoot too. Now that I think of it, there isn't a day goes by where I don't hear some stupid remark on antiquity. I guess it's just due to the company I keep.

[Primus Aurelius Timavus]

Salve Piscine,

I'd be interested in your critique of the Passion of the Christ. I haven't seen it yet. Actually, I lost any interest in seeing the film after reading that it was based on the gospel of John, in my opinion the most twisted account of Jesus' life that appears in the cannon.

My wife, however, brings up the topic of the film from time to time and suggests that she would like to see it. So far I have been able to dissuade her, but she may win out sometime (she usually does, you see). So I'd be interested in any inaccuracies caught by your sharp and critical eye that I could use in our inevitable post-film debate.

Tibi gratias ago,

Tergestus

[Horatius Piscinus]

Salve Tergeste

I think I may have already posted about the film. Anyway. I went mainly to see how Romans were portrayed. The film was produced in Italy, so it should not be a surprise that the Latin was pronounced more like Italian. [Radio Bremen's Latin news still sounds more like German to me, too.] My son, who is a Arabic translator in military intelligence, said he was surprised to find he could understand the Aramaic. I thought the scene of Jesus replying to Pilot in Latin was a little odd, odder still though was the lack of any Greek.

If you are into details, there are all kinds of criticism to be made. Classicists and reenactors will have a field day, but remember that this is a myth, not history. And Christians will find some things odd, as the film does not strictly follow any of the Gospels. I understand, too, that the English subtitles do not match the Aramaic. Mel left in the controversial lines regarding Jews being cursed, but took out the transliteration. The one scene with Mary mopping up the blood of Jesus is not from the Bible but from a vision that a mystic had in 1823. And I am sure Jews will have their own criticisms to make. I found it odd that Caiphus was portrayed in public wearing his sacremental robes.

But about the film's portrayal of the Romans, in general I thought it showed the Romans as sympathetic towards Jesus. Sure they torture him, but Pilot and more especially his wife, and then the guards during the march to Cavalry and at the crucifixion were generally sympathetic. There is a kind of unstated sentiment that the Romans will eventually convert to Christianity. I don't recall any portrayal of the Religio Romana. As for the big controversy, imo the film did retain an antisemetic perspective.

As a film, the first scene is great, pulls you right in. And then the film goes flat. Some have complained about all the blood. If they had done the film realistically, considering what is portrayed, I thought there would be more blood. It's amazing what reserves of blood were in this Jesus, but then there is that whole thing about the Blood of Christ catachism. And where did they come up with that title, "The Passion of THE Christ," as though Mel and his cohorts have some exclusive interpretation of the story, with only their version being true, whether you wish to argue about other anointed saviors, or other Christian versions of Jesus. I thought it an interesting experience to see the audience's reaction, but it is not a good film. And my wife, who is a Catholic, would never have watched such a violent film except that it was about Jesus. She was disturbed by seeing it, but not, I think, in the way the producers intended.

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salve Piscine,

Aren't Aramaeic and Arabic related languages, even if distant? After all, although they hate each other, Arabs and Jews speak modern-day offshoots of the same core language.

Vale bene,
Draco

[Primus Aurelius Timavus]

I myself am convinced that Jesus spoke more than a smattering of Greek. As a carpenter, he and his father probably enjoyed a lot of contract work in the Greek cities which were then springing up around Lake Tiberias. Except for (some of) the Roman soldiers posted in Galilee, no one else spoke Latin in the region at the time. It is unlikely, IMO, that Jesus learned more than "Excuse me", "Sorry", and "Don't kill me!" in Latin!

Tergestus

[Quintus Marius Primus]

Salve Draco

Aramaic, Arabic, and also Hebrew are indeed all related languages, and are in fact members of the Semitic branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family. To my understanding Hebrew and Aramaic are closer to each other than Arabic, but all of them are too distant enough for mutual intelligibility.

Hope that's of use!

Vale bene

Marius Primus
Noviomagus, Britannia

[Anonymous]

Salve Tergeste



And where did they come up with that title, "The Passion of THE Christ," as though Mel and his cohorts have some exclusive interpretation of the story, with only their version being true, whether you wish to argue about other anointed saviors, or other Christian versions of Jesus.

Salvete omnes!

M Moravi Horati Piscine, the Greek word "Christos" is a literal translation of the Hebrew "Mashiach (messiah)" --- meaning "Anointed One" --- and as such, is a title, not a name. So Jesus is correctly referred to as "Jesus, who is called the Christ". Using "Christ" as His surname is an accident of history.

valete!

Cato

[Aldus Marius]

Salvete omnes!

> ...Jesus is correctly referred to as "Jesus, who is called the Christ".
> Using "Christ" as His surname is an accident of history.

Yes, about like using Gaius Iulius Caesar's cognomen as his surname. You noticed that one, too, eh? --I am always explaining to someone that the man's real name was Gaius, of the Iulius clan, nicknamed 'Scruffy'. (Nobody knew he was going to go prematurely bald, nonne?) I even made a skit out of it; in the skit, some poor Plebeian in the reign of one of the harsher Emperors gets tagged 'Scruffy' by one of his drinking-buddies at the Taverna, whereupon he whispers loudly: "Don't call me that--you're gonna get me killed!!"

Oh, wait, that should've been in 'Roman Humor', nonne? >({|;-)

In amicitia,

[Anonymous]

Salve Draco,

In France, when i saw for the first time the movie Gladiator in the dark screen, the french translation was full of mistakes. The biggest : when the movie begins, the subtitle says : Germany, 177 BC instead of 177 AC.

For a beginning, it was a good beginning lol

Now, in the Dvd, the mistake has disapeared

Vale

Aulus