[Concilium] Regulae

This is the Comitia (members' council) of the Societas Via Romana. While guests may read this forum, only registered members of the SVR may post or vote here.

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Absentia

Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:23 pm

Avete Amici,

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:PS: So when are we going to vote about the new Regulae?


FYI I'll be absent from Oct. 1st until Oct. 17th, 2005 because I'll be on vacation (travelling to Turkey). If you wanna count on my vote we should do so either before or after my vacation.
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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:16 pm

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:I disagree. A rector (or curator) has to have a form of leadership and responsibility. I've always seen this lack of responsibility as one of the causes that some collegia were never really active. I'm not saying curatores should make it a one-man show if no one is really listening or caring, but I've pointed out many times in the past that even some solo-efforts can be welcomed or can improve SVR as a whole. When I was rector of collegium Latinum, no one was REALLY interested in its topics, but I persevered and created some things that added to its corpus of essays and material at the site.

Valete!
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PS: So when are we going to vote about the new Regulae?


I understand what you mean, mi Draco, but I'd rephrase your concerns in different terms. I'd say we need people with 'motivation' and 'the skill to make people enthousiastic', rather than people with 'responsability' and 'leadership'.

We are an organisation of volunteers devoting a portion of their spare time to things Roman. When 'working for S.V.R.' becomes a statutory obligation instead of a spontaneous pursuit, I think we're on the wrong track. The obligatory element could demotivate people, as it did to me when I was rector of the Collegium Graecum a few years ago. Which doesn't mean SVR can't be 'professional' and needs to do things in an unorganised and amateuristic way (!). But I'd rather see a sodalis coming up with the idea "hey, long ago we've held a philosophical symposium; shall we do that again; any ideas for a topic ?" than a rector thinking "well, I need to organize a symposium again, don't I; what should I come up with now ?".

As for voting the regulae, I'm still in favour of getting things done by October 1, but then we'd need to accelerate our decision-making a bit, I'm afraid. Although we appear to agree upon most of Horatius' draft, especially the subject we are discussing about now - the role of the rectores - is still very much a pending issue.

Vale,

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:11 pm

Salvete sodales omnes

I am freshly returned from Philadelphia.


Quintus Pomponius Atticus wrote:I agree. The other problem was that it was almost expected that the rector had to 'keep the collegium going'. I think that was a wrong attitude from the beginning. I think a collegium needs to develop spontaneously, through the initiatives of all its members, rather than through the focused efforts of a 'headmaster'.


Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:I disagree. A rector (or curator) has to have a form of leadership and responsibility. I've always seen this lack of responsibility as one of the causes that some collegia were never really active. I'm not saying curatores should make it a one-man show if no one is really listening or caring, but I've pointed out many times in the past that even some solo-efforts can be welcomed or can improve SVR as a whole. When I was rector of collegium Latinum, no one was REALLY interested in its topics, but I persevered and created some things that added to its corpus of essays and material at the site.



We cannot depend on a single individual to stimulate any of the collegia, and if we would try that again it will only mean the collegia will develop unevenly. With a collective leadership we will have a group of people who might work together in a single collegia, or divide responsibilities, or urge one another into being more active, and if any are not fulfilling their 'responsibilities' the others could elect to remove him or her.

There are some things you simply cannot legislate. In the Regulae we do not want to micromanage, but rather keep things in general terms. If you want, Draco, suggest some other wording for this particular provision on the curatores/rectores.


Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:PS: So when are we going to vote about the new Regulae?


Are we in enough agreement in this comittee to vote on the proposal? We could possibley vote before next weekend, and thereby meet our mandate. That only means that the proposal would then be moved before the Comitia. We would be able to continue working on details and minor revisions in the Comitia. A vote of the Comitia on whether to adopt the new Regulae would not happen before the end of October. So Cleopatra and Lentulus should be back before we get to that point.

I do not want to rush this along too quickly, but we also need to get this initial phase behind us and get back to work on developing other things in SVR. If there is any major objection to any of the proposed Regulae's provisions, then we should not vote just yet. But if we agree in principle on the proposed structure represented in the Regulae, then we can move on.

First though, rector or curator? Let us at least get this settled. I am undecided. 'Curatores' because it represents that we have changed things and what their role should be. 'Rectores' to retain a continuity with our former structure and to move back once more towards focusing on the collegia as central to SVR. I am leaning towards retaining 'Rectores'.

Second then will be any rewording Draco might propose on defining the responsibilities of the rectores/curatores. I wish it to be clearly stated that rectores are to serve the sodales of SVR, and no one is to get the ridiculous idea that holding any title in SVR grants him any "power." Rectores are to provide leadership and motivation in our community; they do not issue decrees, commands, edicts or in any way "rule" over SVR or its individual members.

Once these little matters are settled I can repost the proposed Regulae in their reworded form and Atticus can call for a vote on whether to present them to the Comitia.
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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:55 pm

Piscine,

I would like to offer some amendments to your draft, which I hope to post this weekend. Could we hold off on a vote until next week?

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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:08 pm

Salvete Patres et Domina,

I went through Piscinus' draft and suggested a few changes. Most of them are purely stylistic or self-explanatory. If you have any questions regarding why I added a quorum requirement to votes in the Comitia, for example, please ask.

Three points deserve clarification up front. First, I left out "curatores" and made all officers just "officers", but I also specified that the Comitia would determine the individual titles (and duties) of the officers. This should make for a more colorful Societas (who wants to be "Master of Horse"!?!)

Second, I left out any mention of Rectores. I agree with Atticus and Piscinus that we don't really need any formal leadership in the Collegia. Informal leaders should be fine. Still, if we decide there should be rectores, we can add them in.

Third, I left in the punishment of "moderation" without really understanding what it means. Piscine, if you could give me a better idea of what you meant, I could add a sentence defining "moderation". I think it is needed.

Hope you all like it.

Regulae Fundamentalis
Societas Via Romana

I. Statement of Purpose

1. The Societas Via Romana (Roman Way Society) is an international fellowship and Internet community of people sharing a common interest in all aspects of ancient Rome and the heritage that it brought forth for Western Civilization. The Societas therefore acts as an educational organization among its members to discuss and learn together about the various aspects of ancient Rome, its cultures, languages, history, religions, arts, and sciences.

2. The Societas provides and maintains fora via the Internet whereby its members and like-minded people may meet to discuss their common interests.

3. The Societas also maintains a website to provide information to its members and to the general public with regard to the Societas itself and the interests of its members. The website provides a common space where members of the Societas are invited to post written materials and other media related to ancient Rome.

II. Membership

1. Anyone may apply for membership in the Societas through the procedures published at its website (www.societasviaromana.org). Upon acceptance by the officers of the Societas a member shall be known as a sodalis and shall partake fully in any and all benefits extended to sodales of the Societas. In order to remain a member, a sodalis must register with the officers of the Societas in a census held biennially.

2. Individual sodales have to the following rights within the Societas.

A. Access to any and all fora maintained by the Societas.

B. The right to submit written essays and other media as contributions to the website maintained by the Societas. Sodales retain full editorial privileges over any essays they submit for posting to the website of the Societas. Once an essay has been posted to the website, the sodalis who authored the essay may request from the officers of the Societas that it be removed and the officers of the Societas may not refuse to comply with such a request.

C. The right to vote in elections and the right to seek and to hold any elective office of the Societas.

D. The right of initiative to propose measures and policies to the Comitia.

E. The right to propose before the Comitia that any or all officers of the Societas be recalled from office.

F. The right to appeal before the Comitia that any decision of an officer or a collective decision of the officers of the Societas be overturned. This right also applies in the case where officers of the Societas have decided to take a disciplinary action against a sodalis in the course of performing their duties of moderating the forums of the Societas. In this special case the right of appeal before the Comitia shall be known as provocatio.

G. A sodalis may be moderated, expelled from the Societas, and/or disbarred from the fora of the Societas for cause by a majority vote of all the officers of the Societas. Being placed on moderated status goes into immediate effect, but may be appealed before the Comitia. A decision of the officers to expel a sodalis from membership in the Societas and/or to disbar a sodalis from its fora must be posted to the Comitia. The sodalis then has one month to claim his or her right of provocatio, appealing the decision of expulsion and/or disbarment before the Comitia. The decision of the officers to expel or disbar a sodalis does not go into effect until one month has passed from the date when their decision was posted to the Comitia, or until the Comitia has made a final determination on such a disciplinary measure in response to an appeal of the sodalis.

III. The Comitia

1. All authority within the Societas Via Romana ultimately rests with the Comitia. The Comitia shall be composed of all sodales in good standing in the Societas.

2. The Comitia may elect and/or recall any officers to act on its behalf to administer the website and fora of the Societas. Officers are elected by a simple majority of those sodales who vote in an election. Officers may be recalled by a two-thirds majority of those sodales voting in such a recall election.

3. The Comitia may adopt policy statements for the Societas and/or administrative measures by a simple majority of those sodales voting in an election.

4. The Comitia may amend the Regulae Fundamentalis by a two-thirds majority of those sodales voting in an election.

5. The Comitia may, at the initiative of any sodalis, overturn any or all decisions made by the officers of the Societas, to include any disciplinary decisions appealed by a sodalis through his or her right of provocatio.

6. To be valid and to have any force whatsoever, any decision by the Comitia must be voted on by at least ten sodales in good standing or by at least one thirtieth of all sodales in good standing (rounded up), whichever is greater.

IV. Officers

1. The Comitia may elect officers to act on its behalf to administer the Societas, its website and the fora of the Societas. The individual titles of the officers and their individual duties shall be established by the Comitia.

2. No less than three and no more than seven officers may hold office at any one time.

A. Officers are elected by the Comitia, each officer needing a simple majority of those sodales voting in the election in order to attain his or her office. Each officer holds office for two years and may seek reelection as often as he or she may desire.

B. If an officer resigns from office and should then decide to withdraw his or her resignation within nine days of announcing the resignation, the officer must await a decision of the Comitia before returning to office. In effect, the officer appeals to the Comitia to overturn his or her own decision to resign.

C. An officer may be recalled from office by a two-thirds majority of those sodales voting in Comitia, acting upon the initiative of any sodalis, and subject to the quorum described in paragraph III.6. above.

3. The officers are to collectively manage and maintain the fora and the website for the Societas. They may appoint assistants as needed. They may remove, rearrange, or edit any material on the website, with the one exception that may not edit an essay submitted as a contribution by a sodalis without the author’s permission.

4. Officers are to maintain decorum in the fora of the Societas, and thus may moderate, disbar or expel any and all subscribers to the fora, subject to each sodalis' right to provocatio.

5. The officers oversee elections held in the Comitia. They may appoint any assistants needed to conduct such elections.

6. The officers are to maintain a list of all current sodales of the Societas, and conduct a biennial census, registering sodales who wish to renew their membership. The officers may set any procedures needed to conduct the census. They may appoint any assistants to perform the census. The officers are charged with maintaining the privacy of the sodales of the Societas and the security of any information about its sodales, collectively or individually, collected by the officers for the internal use of the Societas.

7. The officers are authorized to establish administrative procedures to be used in the Societas and its Comitia, propose policies for the Societas, manage relations with persons and entities outside the Societas, and grant honorary titles to any sodalis and/or awards of recognition to its members or others. At the initiative of any sodalis, such decisions of the officers may be subject to approval or rejection by a vote of the Comitia.
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Shift work?

Postby Aldus Marius on Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:23 pm

Avete magistri...

Sounds like we're going to be having a lot of elections (Comitia votes), with no machinery specified to handle them. Is this something we need to work out here, or is it one of those internal things to be fleshed out...(wait for it)...in Comitia?

All this presupposes a much more active Comitia membership than any we've ever seen. If we can't get 'em into the sheep-pens for two elections a year, how on earth will we do it for "I wanna be a Rector" votes, "I don't wanna be a Rector anymore--oops, changed my mind" votes, "He's moderating me--No Fair!" votes, and all the rest?

And I imagine said Rectores (if that's what we call them; it is my own preferred term, obviously) are going to feel a bit like shiftworkers. You know the deal: Day shift leaves all the hard stuff for Swings; Swings supposedly leaves it for Days. Day shift can't do it because they're always being paged by the admin types; Swing shift can't do it because there aren't any managers around.

Will our officers end up writing all the meaty parts of the Regula for us, as a series of votes and decreta? Isn't this what we had a Senate for? What's the point of us having met here, if we're just going to hand the real work right back to a set of "Magistrates" and a lot of Sodales whose track record would be considered 'sterling' were it for anything but apathy?

But, I suppose--no, I know--that we don't have time to do anything else. Carry on, gentlepersons; and when we do vote on the draft, I'll likely vote for it too. After all, I didn't bring anything better.

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:50 pm

Salvete

In theory the Comitia has always been the ultimate authority in SVR. Tergestus restated what already exists in SVR, and that is really what we are trying to do with these new Regulae.

I agree that the Comitia should have some quorum, but one thirtieth is not about to work. We once approached or exceeded 100 members and was still getting only about 14 people voting. We had better participation in some elections, but 30 out of 100 members is a high expectation. And yet to make it less would allow for a very small minority to run or ruin SVR. A minimum of 10, that works. Perhaps 10% would work, but I think 30% of membership as a quorum is too high an expectation.

Other than that quorum thing, I prefer what Tergestus has written.

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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:24 pm

Thanks Piscine.

By "one thirtieth" I meant 3.33333%, not 30%. With our 253 active members as of today, a "one thirtieth" quorum would be 8.4 people, or 9 people (rounding up as specified). Since this is less than 10, 10 would be the required quorum. With that explanation, is the quorum rule as written OK?

Piscine, could you give us an idea of what you meant by "moderating" an errant sodalis? I'd like to include a line explaining what the punishment represents in the Regulae.

TGA,

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:34 am

Salvete

Primus Aurelius Tergestus wrote:Thanks Piscine.

By "one thirtieth" I meant 3.33333%, not 30%. With our 253 active members as of today, a "one thirtieth" quorum would be 8.4 people, or 9 people (rounding up as specified). Since this is less than 10, 10 would be the required quorum. With that explanation, is the quorum rule as written OK?


Oops, where did i put that abacus again? OK

Primus Aurelius Tergestus wrote:Piscine, could you give us an idea of what you meant by "moderating" an errant sodalis? I'd like to include a line explaining what the punishment represents in the Regulae.


Just between us, and as I have explained in the Senate before, the only real "power" that exists in a web community is with whoever controls access. "Moderated" status means that a person's access to posting to the forum is limited. Anything they wish to post must first be reviewed by one of the officers and approved. How long the "moderated" status would last is decided by the officers, depending on the nature of the offense. If someone tried to post an objectionable email while still under "Moderated" status, or would commit another offense after he was returned to normal status, the officers could extend the period of "moderated" status, or else recommend other action to the Comitia, such as expulsion from SVR membership or even expulsion from SVR's fora. Expulsion would then end the individual's access to SVR fora entirely.

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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:12 pm

To incorporate Piscinus' explanation of the penalty of moderation, I suggest that we include the following in the proposed Regulae:

II. G. Moderated status means that a sodalis' access to posting to the SVR fora is limited. Anything he or she wishes to post must first be reviewed by one of the officers and approved. The length of time that a sodalis is placed under moderated status would be decided by the officers, depending on the nature of the offense, and subject to the right of provocatio.
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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:35 am

Primus Aurelius Tergestus wrote:To incorporate Piscinus' explanation of the penalty of moderation, I suggest that we include the following in the proposed Regulae:

II. G. Moderated status means that a sodalis' access to posting to the SVR fora is limited. Anything he or she wishes to post must first be reviewed by one of the officers and approved.The length of time that a sodalis is placed under moderated status would be decided by the officers, depending on the nature of the offense, and subject to the right of provocatio.


Is this technically possible with the kind of forum we have ? Aediles ?
If it is, I agree with this addition.

Valete,

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Postby Tiberius Dionysius Draco on Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:45 am

Salve Attice,

Quintus Pomponius Atticus wrote:
Primus Aurelius Tergestus wrote:To incorporate Piscinus' explanation of the penalty of moderation, I suggest that we include the following in the proposed Regulae:

II. G. Moderated status means that a sodalis' access to posting to the SVR fora is limited. Anything he or she wishes to post must first be reviewed by one of the officers and approved.The length of time that a sodalis is placed under moderated status would be decided by the officers, depending on the nature of the offense, and subject to the right of provocatio.


Is this technically possible with the kind of forum we have ? Aediles ?
If it is, I agree with this addition.


I have looked into this earlier already, but this board does not support that option sadly.

Perhaps a later update will make this available, but at the time we do not have the means to control a user in such a way.

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:24 pm

Salve Tiberi Draco

What options are available to us then? Is it only a matter of access or no access?
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Postby Tiberius Dionysius Draco on Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:45 pm

Salve,

Horatius Piscinus wrote:Salve Tiberi Draco

What options are available to us then? Is it only a matter of access or no access?


I'm afraid so, this board is rather limited when it comes to governing it's members. I can delete them or ban them, but that's about it.

I'll keep an eye out for updates so that I can upgrade the forum. If anything changes, it'll be posted in the Aediles thread.

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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:20 pm

Then the only solution for 'moderating' members seems to ban them temporarily. It is not a very elegant solution, but then again, it is meant to keep members behaving véry 'inelegantly' out...

Of course, we should be careful not to "shoot at a mosquito with a canon", as a Dutch proverb goes : a sodalis advertising for a renaissance fair in his neighbourhood should not be interdicted of water and fire and be sent to the remote island of Pandataria, but should be kindly reminded of the forum rules concerning spamming. Of course, if a member begins to advertise for pornographical videos on our forum, or if someone posts insulting racist remarks on our forum, banishment is more than appropriate.


Valete,

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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:10 pm

Salvete Omnes,

In view of the correspondence about the technical limitations of our site, I have edited the proposed Regulae to remove references to "moderation" and to replace them with "suspension." Here is the full text that we can vote on if there are no further suggestions.

I. Statement of Purpose

1. The Societas Via Romana (Roman Way Society) is an international fellowship and Internet community of people sharing a common interest in all aspects of ancient Rome and the heritage that it brought forth for Western Civilization. The Societas therefore acts as an educational organization among its members to discuss and learn together about the various aspects of ancient Rome, its cultures, languages, history, religions, arts, and sciences.

2. The Societas provides and maintains fora via the Internet whereby its members and like-minded people may meet to discuss their common interests.

3. The Societas also maintains a website to provide information to its members and to the general public with regard to the Societas itself and the interests of its members. The website provides a common space where members of the Societas are invited to post written materials and other media related to ancient Rome.

II. Membership

1. Anyone may apply for membership in the Societas through the procedures published at its website (www.societasviaromana.org). Upon acceptance by the officers of the Societas a member shall be known as a sodalis and shall partake fully in any and all benefits extended to sodales of the Societas. In order to remain a member, a sodalis must register with the officers of the Societas in a census held biennially.

2. Individual sodales have to the following rights within the Societas.

A. Access to any and all fora maintained by the Societas.

B. The right to submit written essays and other media as contributions to the website maintained by the Societas. Sodales retain full editorial privileges over any essays they submit for posting to the website of the Societas. Once an essay has been posted to the website, the sodalis who authored the essay may request from the officers of the Societas that it be removed and the officers of the Societas may not refuse to comply with such a request.

C. The right to vote in elections and the right to seek and to hold any elective office of the Societas.

D. The right of initiative to propose measures and policies to the Comitia and the right to vote on any proposals in the Comitia.

E. The right to propose before the Comitia that any or all officers of the Societas be recalled from office.

F. The right to appeal before the Comitia that any decision of an officer or a collective decision of the officers of the Societas be overturned. This right also applies in the case where officers of the Societas have decided to take a disciplinary action against a sodalis in the course of performing their duties of moderating the forums of the Societas. In this special case the right of appeal before the Comitia shall be known as provocatio.

G. A sodalis may be suspended or expelled from the Societas, and/or be disbarred from the fora of the Societas for cause by a majority vote of all the officers of the Societas. Suspension goes into immediate effect, but may be appealed before the Comitia. A decision of the officers to expel a sodalis from membership in the Societas and/or to disbar a sodalis from its fora must be posted to the Comitia. The sodalis then has one month to claim his or her right of provocatio, appealing the decision of expulsion and/or disbarment before the Comitia. The decision of the officers to expel or disbar a sodalis does not go into effect until one month has passed from the date when their decision was posted to the Comitia, or until the Comitia has made a final determination on such a disciplinary measure in response to an appeal of the sodalis.

III. The Comitia

1. All authority within the Societas Via Romana ultimately rests with the Comitia. The Comitia shall be composed of all sodales in good standing in the Societas.

2. The Comitia may elect and/or recall any officers to act on its behalf to administer the website and fora of the Societas. Officers are elected by a simple majority of those sodales who vote in an election. Officers may be recalled by a two-thirds majority of those sodales voting in such a recall election.

3. The Comitia may adopt policy statements for the Societas and/or administrative measures by a simple majority of those sodales voting in an election.

4. The Comitia may amend the Regulae Fundamentalis by a two-thirds majority of those sodales voting.

5. The Comitia may, at the initiative of any sodalis, overturn any or all decisions made by the officers of the Societas, to include any disciplinary decisions appealed by a sodalis through his or her right of provocatio.

6. To be valid and to have any force whatsoever, any decision by the Comitia must be voted on by at least ten sodales in good standing or by at least one thirtieth of all sodales in good standing (rounded up), whichever is greater.

IV. Officers

1. The Comitia may elect officers to act on its behalf to administer the Societas, its website and the fora of the Societas. The individual titles of the officers and their individual duties shall be established by the Comitia.

2. No less than three and no more than seven officers may hold office at any one time.

A. Officers are elected by the Comitia, each officer needing a simple majority of those sodales voting in the election in order to attain his or her office. Each officer holds office for two years and may seek reelection as often as he or she may desire.

B. If an officer resigns from office and should then decide to withdraw his or her resignation within nine days of announcing the resignation, the officer must await a decision of the Comitia before returning to office. In effect, the officer appeals to the Comitia to overturn his or her own decision to resign.

C. An officer may be recalled from office by a two-thirds majority of those sodales voting in Comitia, acting upon the initiative of any sodalis, and subject to the quorum described in paragraph III.6. above.

3. The officers are to collectively manage and maintain the fora and the website for the Societas. They may appoint assistants as needed. They may remove, rearrange, or edit any material on the website, with the one exception that may not edit an essay submitted as a contribution by a sodalis without the author’s permission.

4. Officers are to maintain decorum in the fora of the Societas, and thus may suspend, disbar or expel any and all subscribers to the fora, subject to each sodalis' right to provocatio.

5. The officers oversee elections held in the Comitia. They may appoint any assistants needed to conduct such elections.

6. The officers are to maintain a list of all current sodales of the Societas, and conduct a biennial census, registering sodales who wish to renew their membership. The officers may set any procedures needed to conduct the census. They may appoint any assistants to perform the census. The officers are charged with maintaining the privacy of the sodales of the Societas and the security of any information about its sodales, collectively or individually, collected by the officers for the internal use of the Societas.

7. The officers are authorized to establish administrative procedures to be used in the Societas and its Comitia, propose policies for the Societas, manage relations with persons and entities outside the Societas, and grant honorary titles to any sodalis and/or awards of recognition to its members or others. At the initiative of any sodalis, such decisions of the officers may be subject to approval or rejection by a vote of the Comitia
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:46 pm

Salvete

I have read through the Regulae as they are now amended.

Tergeste, you just need to proof read through it:

"2. Individual sodales have to the following rights within the Societas. "

:? [to] needs to go. Other than that I think this is ready to present to the Comitia. So whenever Atticus is ready to schedule a vote in the concilium, I shall vote in favor of the Regulae.

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