Restoratio Memoriae

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Restoratio Memoriae

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:15 am

Salvete, omnes Sodales...

As requested in the It's All Yours thread, I shall be reposting here what I have of former Consul Tiberius Coruncanius' writings regarding the new Regula, the Concilium, and the period leading up to our recent 'Constitutional Convention'.

The messages replicated here were originally posted to various other Comitia topics, most notably "Ideas for a Better SVR", "It's All Yours", and most recently the "New Regula" poll. I will put them in chronological order, with the name of the thread they were posted to if I know it. This way, anyone who wants to do a little cross-checking can match the topic and date of Coruncanius' messages (here) with the otherwise isolated and confusing responses to them (in their original topics).

When I get done with this, I would like to give my own assessment of the 'crisis' experience if no one objects. Like all of you, I was directly affected by the events of this past summer, and am not fond of the idea of that part of our community memory being summarily erased.

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Coruncanius: On SVR Reform

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:25 am

[Comitia-->Ideas for a Better SVR]
Posted:
Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject: Vale!
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I came home last night to these statements which left me quite shocked. At first I didn't believe what I was reading. After a second reading things make a lot more sense to me now. What I've read leaves me quite saddened although it also confirms many things I chose not to entertain in my thoughts. What I see is a closing of the ranks, a division has formed amongst the members, it seems. I read these posts of those calling for a new version of SVR and I've read posts from those who don't discuss this, who simply post on matters that concern them or post to generate discussion. As the posts calling for revisions or lamenting what SVR has become state in so many words: SVR has no defined purpose. Structurally, we are being asked to close ranks by the very same people who always wanted a more "open" societas. SVR no longer functions correctly to hear them tell it. I've news for you: it doesn't work the way any of us planned because nothing like this works as planned. This is not a video game or a script. I think that SVR does have a purpose. I think that it is a purpose that is better than the one upon which it was founded.

To hear you tell it, in order to function we must rewrite and revise SVR's Regula, administration, collegia and everything else. That's all we need to do. And I first thought your laundry list would be difficult. I'm glad to know we need do nothing more than erase the board and start over again. Because things haven't gone so well, we should just give up. That's what I read as the overriding thought in these posts. Certainly doing what many of us were doing - posting on subjects of interest to members like Roman history, religion, history in the news, philosophic speculation, and the list goes on - wasn't enough for some of you. First the issue has turned on the question of what SVR represents and stands for. Now, to hear you tell it, it is what SVR does. Again I think it goes back to the conception of purpose of SVR.

When I found SVR on the internet, I was very excited. I liked the atmosphere, the discussions and the free environment to learn, post and discuss anything and everything about Roman history, religion, philosophy, and culture. I felt I ought to get involved. I did. I joined, posted information I had, asked questions, and helped answer others' inquiries. I didn't even want to become part of the administration, but I felt that I ought to try to help out a place I came to think of as a home on the internet. This was probably a mistake. I am an administrator not an innovator, although I have an ideallistic streak. I have discussed many ideas, with many mambers for ways to make SVR a better place. Ultimately these don't come to bear much fruit. Why? Probably a great deal of the fault lies with me. I won't point fingers at the rest of you without first acknowledging that I've got a lot to answer for as well. But I will say that when I had the time, I asked members publically and privately what they wanted out of SVR? What did they want to see SVR become? I got very few direct answers. Involvement was a word tossed around often enough. Personally, I thought there were very few hinderances to people getting involved in something here at SVR. Members and visitors post, discuss and share information, links, files, news, etc. I wanted to perhaps expand some of SVR's administration to attempt to get more people involved and I very much wanted the Comitia to be one of the main venues of discussion. Have I dreamt to big? Idealistically, I say no, however, realisticaly, I have to conceed that none of my ideas are what the membership of SVR are interested in.

But to wane idealistic and wax realistic for a moment, none of this is why you brought up this subject actually. Am I right? Certainly, many points you raise, I think have some validity to them however I think most of the proposals will simply erase any of the work and efforts we as a group have accomplished here at SVR. This has been a consistant point I try to make. And it has begun to occur to me that I have been engaged in a Sisyphean task of trying to overcome inertia, schedules and a whole list of other things that seem to make SVR falter at times. Many time I have tried to assuage people's concerns believing that they were genuine, believing that soon, we might have more activity, that I might have time. What I didn't realize was that most of active members would basically walk off and all but refuse to participate. The Praetors, both very intelligent and learned are occupied with their studies. The Censors are simply put, absent. My Aediles are either unaccounted for or unable to access the site. Most of the Rectors never show up. To put it another way, I have no quorum. My own, personal thought is to tell you all to just deal with it. Sometimes things you don't like happen. But in a way you already are dealing with it. By distancing yourselves, this has all but become a strike or a walk-out designed to shut down activity in SVR. It is basically clear to me now that to the members, those members whose opinions count anyway, SVR is not serving their intended purposes.

It is clear that neither many of you or I figure in their plans.
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Coruncanius--Decretum: "It's All Yours"

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:33 am

[Comitia-->It's All Yours]
Posted:
Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: It's all yours
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Salvete!

How fast the vitriolic posts flow when people don't like what they hear. So much for SVR's legendary civility. I don't know how to answer them because I hardly can understand them - references to things I can't recall or never knew, I suppose. By now, one thing is clear to me and I understand it perfectly; I've only held you back from a direction that I and about seven others refuse to go. I never should have stood for Consul, I never should have joined SVR. This whole organization, it has become clear to me, is basically an "Aventine Secession" from another organization. Most of you seem to be waiting for an Agrippa Menenius to come and welcome you back. I should have understood this earlier, I didn't.

To remedy this situation, I offer this:

MMDCCLVIII.I TI. CORUNCANIUS Q. CLAUDIUS LOCATUS BARBATUS
COSS. XVI Kal Sext.

Due to numerous issues and unfortunate events, the Senate and the leadership have failed to perform the duties the membership has entrusted them with. Because of this situation, I, Ti. Coruncanius, Consul, hereby:

I. Disband the Senate for a period of not less than one month and not more than three months.

II. In this period of time, a concilium of ten senior members of SVR will construct a new Regula Fundamentalis for the purposes of governing SVR's future organization and workings.
A. To ensure a viable and acceptable quorum, the concilium should consist of at least five of the top ten members who have been at SVR the longest, this includes what remains of the founding membership; another five should be drawn from the top ten highest posting members based upon the membership list viewable in the forum.
B. The concilium may conduct its work in whatever manner its members agree upon as acceptable. The Concilium may set its work schedules as it desires.
C. At the end of this period, the concilium will lay aside its authority and place its draft of the new Regula Fundamentalis before the comitia for a vote.
D. Should the draft be rejected by the Comitia, then the concilium must agree upon a new draft of the Regula for the Comitia to vote upon.

III. Whatever organization the concilium has drafted and the Comitia has ratified will become the new Regula Fundamentalis governing SVR.

IV. Should the concilium and the Comitia fail to draft and/or ratify a new Regula Fundamentalis after three months from this date, the Senate again will be required to assume control over SVR's administration.

That's all I have.
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Coruncanius: On Draco's Retirement

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:51 am

[Comitia-->Retirement]
Posted:
Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:50 am Post subject: NO! Stop!
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NO! Cease and desist! These posts are not getting anything solved especially since none of them are exactly true.

I guess I'd say that, I have the facts and I am confused and therefore I have not made up my mind about this except to say that this entire exchange is not entirely true. In your assessment of the situation, Marce, you mention we are missing a Rogator. That's the first I've heard of it. The other Praetor is Quintus Valerius Scerio and he is/was judging an essay contest here. Also, I didn't quit, resign or anything else although I feel like quitting, resigning and everything else. In the short time I had to myself I felt I had to offer something for discussion, the comitia seemed the best place to do it since I usually feel like I'm talking to myself in the Senate. So I slapped down that decretum. In spite of how I've been characterized, I would rather have the comitia take up the majority of SVR's business. Now it has to. When it is done, and if it is successful, then you, I and the lot of us parading about the red shoes and togae praetextae will be out of a job. I did not plan on posting anything for a very long time but I felt I ought to make these remarks and put out a fire.

A lot has happened, since I told the Senate it was not meeting anymore. I invoked the spirit of Concordia in the Senate and I meant it. And I'm glad to see for the most part it worked. People are probably mad and confused, I know I am. I haven't had much time to relfect back on this yet but I know I'm very angry and am trying very hard to think back on why we even have an SVR and why we are here. Perhaps that is somewhat up-in-the-air right now, but I think that one reason was that this place has or had a record for having pleasant discussions not bitter exchanges and cheap-shots. Atticus, Horatius your posts seemed nasty and condecending towards Numerius, but I have to admit what you were responding to was no greeting card either. Numerius, I don't know if you're still around but you can't just dismiss things as "BS" all the time. You shouldn't cut-and-paste quotes either unless you use them in context. You might have some points, and yes, there is more than one side to a story but please be more tactful.

I was, and am very angry about how this mess came about. I felt like I was caught out in the crossfire between those who just announce that there needs to be change because nothing is working right around here and others who simply don't or can't or won't do anything except tell us you've worked too much and want to retire - or simply just disappear. What if we just participated as we were supposed to? This never was as great an issue when others were administrators of the site. So why now? I felt and I feel still like I am to blame for this loss of momentum at SVR but I also feel like this is exactly the situation you wanted me in, I saw this coming, at least I suspected as much. I thought I could do someting about it but I couldn't - I even asked for help from some of you but I never got any answers because I think the majority of you, members I thought of as friends, simply didn't want to work with me. Am I that bad? Is that what really happened?

Somehow I still hope most things can be made to work again, I guess it is in my nature to hope. Perhaps a restructuring will work. Perhaps we will get past this. Perhaps you, my friends, and I can chalk this up to something like, 'I let you down, you let me down - such is life but we can get through it.'

Perhaps we won't let it come to this again.
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Coruncanius: On Reform, Part Two

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:56 am

[Comitia-->Ideas for a Better SVR]
Posted:
Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: Another proposal
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Salve Primus Tergestus! Salvete omnibus!

It seems to me that some of you are going about "reform" in a rather stange way. If you want change and if you want real results, I think that you are going to have to drop the idea that you can have a "government" here at SVR. Afterall, just what is there to govern? We are neither a nation, a state nor anything else that actually requires a government. We are, however a society and a website. It is this society and website that we need to administer and I think the organization needs to reflect that. If you are going into this with the mindset that you this place to be more active and run smoother, I think the last things that you should be discussing now are how many Consuls you want, how long the terms will be.

Thinking along the lines of, "The right tool for the right job," The optimal reforms would take into account that this is primarily a web-based forum and that design, maintenance, monitoring, participation and usability should be the first order of business. I think SVR ought to consider how the majority of websites and web-based communities are run. Most websites have an administrator or administrators who see to the sites technical issues. I see that Marcus Horatius and Primus Aurelius have mentioned something to this effect already, even calling them Curiones (?). Many topic list sites like the Forum here at SVR have moderators or experts; two or three individuals who donate their time to oversee discussions on some of the lists, offer advice and generally keep members and visitors happy and if need be, in line--call these Aediles or Prefects if you will. The SVR website’s needs and challenges are not unique to the internet. Perhaps we should not attempt to invent a way of managing an online community, but rather adapt to a method and model that has a proven track record of working.

Perhaps this is a hard realization to come by for some members. Certainly a Roman oriented group wants to have something akin to a traditional Roman leadership with Consuls, Praetors and the rest. I guess this is only natural; however it is not feasible for this environment. This might come as a shock to some of you but I mostly thought of our Roman-style government as something like a simulation or exercise. A demonstration of how a Roman government of the Roman republic might have worked. I think we could not get it to work, at least not as a way of actually governing SVR to its advantage. So I have to concede that we should shelve it for now. Therefore, I am left to conclude that any plans that try to "reform" the administration of SVR in such a mold by creating a sort of "Roman government lite" with the same officers but fewer numbers will only exacerbate the situation to say nothing of being anachronistic or historically inaccurate. After all, one Consul seems strange when the very nature of the office was collegial.

Regarding the authority and terms for which such administrators and moderators would serve under, I imagine that’s a matter for discussion. Since this is not a nation or state in need of government per se, I think we should not simply think in terms of elections and terms in office. I won’t offer any specifics here but I wonder if terms of service should be left up to the members who serve as admins and moderators. Some may serve for a long while, while others may only serve for short time. Open positions might be co-opted by the moderators and administrators or special elections held, I’m not sure which would be easier and which would produce better results for SVR. This would be a matter for the members of SVR to decide, I suppose. One thing I do believe is that if we opt for some sort of co-opted leadership, it might prove more stable in the long run however as a word of warning, I think this system would yield dividends for SVR if and only if the members at large agree on a very strict mandate, or regula if you prefer - that instructs and authorizes the administrators to carry out only their duties and adhere to SVR policy in a specific way and forbid them any deviations from that policy. Such measures would both insure SVR’s independence and safeguard individual members. Timely elections would be the other option for a governing body for SVR, however, many of you have already mentioned that this does not always guarantee that you will get a magistrate who will attend to their duties. The method and way in which the new "leadership" will serve, I think, will be the most difficult decision members will make in this upcoming concilium. I advocate going with a form that allows the best management for the website first and like Tergestus, I advocate a minimalist approach to doing this.

Another concern voiced already is that of the fate of the Collegia. We went from more to less and the result was less than certain. We didn’t have as much activity in the condensed Collegia as we did in the expanded Collegia the year before however I would be hard pressed to say this was because of the structure of the Collegia itself. There were several factors for the lack of activity here at SVR’s Collegia and I don’t believe the restructuring was a major reason. That said, we probably could reorganize them once more since it was and probably will be cited as a reason for people’s lack of participation this past year. Still I think less is more with the Collegia too. These are the basic topics of discussion in the Forum and I think each one requires at least one moderator, how many moderators can we have or should we have? I personally believe no less than two and no more than four although I understand that many might want more. I think moderators of the collegia can suffice and manage the collegia nicely. How many Collegia, is up in the air and again I think we should go with some number from four to seven any more, I think would be too crowded and likely double up on another Collegia's functions.

As for members' voice in the administration of SVR, I think this is not as hot-button an issue anymore if we face the fact that SVR doesn't need a "government" that could "enact" measures that some members would object to. Instead, if seen as a website and its need for moderators and admins who simply perform their mandated duties, the idea that must have a "we the people" who need to hold the elected magistrated accountable is somewhat pointless. If we want some sort of voting body or rostrum for members to discuss policies and administration ideas, sure we can have one of those. I guess I see this as more of a club or organization of friends and I think like most clubs, we can just hold a mandated meeting now and then, every quarter, every month or whatever cycle you like. At that meeting, the Administrators and moderators can ask members for input or ideas. The floor can be opened for motions and any voting can just happen there by posting yea or nay. Simple enough.

Clearly, there is no shortage of ideas when it comes to how SVR should be managed, the Concilium has its work cut out for them.
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Coruncanius on the New Regula

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:03 am

[Comitia-->New Regulae]
Posted:
Mon, Nov 07 2005 12:53am Post Subject: Nicely done!
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Salvete,

I didn't expect to see anything from the Decemvirate in spite of entrusting SVR to them.

I agree with my former colleague, this looks good. It will, however present you with a very different set of problems. Maybe you'll be up to the challenge.
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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:20 pm

I would like to add the following text of a letter that Coruncanius sent to various sodales on 6 November 2005. I feel comfortable posting it because he labelled it as an "open letter". Open letter means meant to be read by anyone.

Tergestus




I'm sending this to many of my friends here at SVR in hopes we can come to some new consensus and perhaps work on something new

Salve Quinte Claudi Locate!

Locate, I haven't corresponded with you that often in the past year however I have always had reason to believe you are a decent and honorable person. Now, I am appealing to your sense of deacency to shut down your server and remove SVR from the internet.

Let me tell you that this place, SVR, WAS a community, at least by my definition it was. It was a community and it ran fine doing what it was doing. I made a lot of friends here and I enjoyed visiting it as often as I could. I made it a point to try to correspond with as many members as I could, even meeting some face-to-face. I thought it was great to find a society of friends who valued and respected each other's company and shared their knowledge about the ancient world for fun. Clearly those who count more around here than I did not share this assessment. I suspect this is because of the relationship many members have with the closed society and non-profit religious organization named novaroma.org. I have long watched that place and I have always maintained that we as the community of SVR have nothing, NOTHING whatsoever to do with them. Their goals and adjenda are not our goals and certainly not our adjenda. There can be no official cooperation with an organization such as that one, which by its own admission believes itself to be the true holder of Romanitas. You know this to be true.

Yet none of these realizations- that we had a community of our own making that members really enjoyed, that we didn't need to work with organizations with perverse, radical adjendas to do what we wanted - made much of a difference to certain members of SVR who constantly kept looking over their shoulder at novaroma.org and judgeing themselves by that group's largely falsified standards. Community means something else to I them, I am left to conclude. They declared that SVR failed and thus it did. Clearly there were members who could not be satisfied with the good that SVR accomplished. The rest of us are left saddened and wondering why.

Seneca once remarked that, "...a man is as unhappy as he has convinced himself he is." I think this sums up what many of the "important" members of SVR have been up to like Draco - whether by a genuine depression or by affected design. By constantly keeping their eyes on what other groups are doing, bemoaning the ways that SVR is not like other groups, and complaining about what is or is not happening here at SVR, these members have attempted to create an impression of discontentment with this organization far outweighing the actual level of discontentment - or they have convinced themselves that they are discontent. They attempt to create an atmosphere of defeatism and malaise far outweighing how the majority of members feel about SVR. Sadly, this has basically worked to their favor, they are unhappy and convinced of it. This all was to achieve one end.

Now, they have got their way, I don't know where you stand on this but Draco and his associates pulled a stunt worth of novaroma.org. You, the ownership of the site, by refusing to participate and Draco resigning (just like a staged crisis or three at novaroma.org) gave members the means and motive to brand me a tyrant and remove me from office. If you could not tolerate me, then why did I win an election? If one of you wanted to do a better job or had better ideas, why didn't you work within the Regula, run for office on a platform? No, you needed to have a glorious revolution and topple a dictator. Someone none of you were close to, someone expendable. Me. Foolish me. Instead, I gave you all the opportunity to try your own hand at things, since all of you profess to love novaroma so much as to refuse to participate and abide by the Regula, I gave you the right under the very regula and government you so despise to make the changes that would spell the end of the community of SVR as we knew it. Afterall, the community failed. Did it really fail? It only failed people who wanted SVR to work as some sort of bargaining chip with novaroma.org.

It was what you all wanted now it is what you've got. I've read the new regula and like it. Except for the fact that you've written all authority to the site over to the "sodales" no matter who they are and what they represent. You've got Radical "democracy" at its finest, just like Athens after the death of Pericles or after the French Revolution; no oversight, no real governance, no real policies, no responsibilities . This of course will turn the forum over to those able to make the most noise, those who can post the most frequenly, those who spread the most insults and blame about. Any moderator who objects will be recalled and more sympathetic ones put in place. The forum is already stacked in such a way, ala Saturninus with new members - "citizens" of novaroma.org sent over for the express purpose of dragging this once great little organization over to the contemptable "sacred right" subculture on the web to an eventual merger with novaroma.org. Soon you will see measures calling for unity with novaroma.org and its indoctrinal ventures, musearum and academia Thules. And these will pass without debate. Next, you will see website changes to reflect the motifs of novaroma.org and its affiliates, and these too will pass without debate. You will also see a great deal of disminformation and coded language used by neo-fascist groups posted in a dogmatic way about the forum and this too will come to pass without notice. Save yourself from this coming storm and simply shut the place down.

This might sound like bad advice but think about it with care and consideration. If you had ceased to care about SVR, why didn't you just tell the membership so and turn off the server? Many would be sad but would also understand your reasons and probably carry on your ideals and efforts on mailing lists and other sites. Many would remember it fondly and some would keep up correspondance with one another. Instead this charade to "see where this goes" and create a new Regula will undo all that was done here as an independent group, it will simply become part of novaroma.org. I said before that SVR will be viewed with the same suspicion as novaroma.org is view with now if SVR works with them. Suddenly everything we've posted or done or debated will look different to members and visiting viewers alike. Many will dismiss anything we've done as just more neo-fascist dogma rather than sound, informative work.

People are on to them. In the wake of Sept. 11, people in the mainstream have little tolerance left for any sort of fringe group that advocates what novaroma.org advocates. Novaroma.org was mentioned in cultwatch and shows up on cranknet.com. SVR does not have this baggage attached to it. SVR has received much interest by people on the internet and I think that we do our members and visitors alike a service by abstaining from interacting with groups like novaroma.org and denouncing their modern, political adjendas. I always thought we were here because of our love of Roma Antiqua and a deep interest in the ancient world. I would hate to see an organization such as SVR's sucumb to the efforts of novaroma.org and other neo-fascist groups who cannot tolerate enlightened minds searching into the past for solace and truth. Ultimatly, Locate even if you and I don't see eye-to-eye, I've thought of you as a friend and would rather remember you and the rest of my friends at SVR fondly, as people who rather than just cave in and let neo-fascists lay claim to 4+ years of work, fun and community. Rather I'd like to remember SVR as being fun while it lasted but like all things, came to pass. Wouldn't you rather think of SVR that way rather than have it remain in a paled existence as an attachment to a reviled, neo-fascist organization?

Do the right thing, deprive these neo-fascists of yet another forum. Take our beloved SVR offline.

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Coruncanius' Open Letter

Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:31 pm

Avete Amici,

I still consider me more or less a newbie although I'm nearly one year now a member of the SVR and active on this forum. Since the SVR was the first forum where I found like minded people who share the passion for Roma Antica and therefore do not have any experience with any other organizations I don't have the background to fully understand all contents of Coruncanius' open letter.

I just want you all to know that I would be shocked if someone would take the SVR offline. But I'm sure the rest of you would like to continue otherwise our work at the concilium would be for nothing.
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SVR Offlined?

Postby Aldus Marius on Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:52 am

Salve, Cleopatra, et Salvete omnes...

I don't think anyone is seriously thinking of taking the SVR offline. Coruncanius was in the habit of saying desperate things and advocating desperate measures, even when there were no "desperate times" to justify them. He often struck me as a brittle personality, easily upset by anything that looked even remotely like conflict. He wandered into a perfectly normal Comitia debate, on a thread started by a Founder, and felt "caught in a crossfire". What would have happened if he'd served on the Concilium (as at one time appeared likely)? --I think one week of honest give-and-take would have had him putting in for Veteran's benefits.

There was no "crisis" in the SVR until he created one. He slammed down his office, dissolved the whole administration, and walked out on the reform process. It unnerved him to hear us talk of reform; yet by his actions he made that reform unavoidable. I doubt he sees the irony; now he claims that we manufactured a crisis. And he'd rather see the SVR eliminated than have it go any direction which he was not willing to go himself.

And what was the Number One worst thing anyone in the Societas could do as far as he was concerned? --To have any dealings whatsoever with NovaRoma.

Domina Aelia, I have said for a long time that we really need a public account of the history between us and NovaRoma. This would answer questions like yours, keep me from getting PM'ed every time somebody raises the subject, and give the newcomer the context for understanding a lot of what gets said and done around here. I will try to be brief...

NovaRoma was founded in March of 1998 for the purpose of recreating and reviving ancient Roman civilization to the extent possible in the modern world. This was a great idea, almost identical to my own mission in life; but though things have improved somewhat in the last few years, the concept has suffered brutally from its founders and a number of the earlier members.

The founding members were mainly conservative, and Roman Pagans to the core. NR was originally started to revive the Religio Romana, and anything that compromised this goal was tantamount to treason. So of course NR ran into trouble when it acquired its first Christian and Jewish members (they were barred from office); when SCAdians, reenactors and other 'roleplayers' wanted to join and share their considerable organizational expertise (they were distrusted on sight); when younger members aspired to magistracy (age requirements were installed ex post facto, and arbitrarily enforced); and, most notoriously, when a transgendered Civis wanted the Censores to change his name from the feminine he'd been born with to the masculine that best described him.

That was me.

For very many of us, this was the last straw. Most of us had been Citizens for between one and three years; I'd been an active and contributing member since four months after NR was founded. People could not believe what was happening to me. And all of the Novaromani in my camp had experienced the same things I did: one long run of Listwars, malice masquarading as politics, Magistrates vying to see Who Could Do What to Whom, and near-complete inability to even identify, let alone discuss, Roman historical and cultural issues. So NR did not succeed in really replicating anything...except the backstabbing viciousness of the late Republic.

That being the case, we--myself, Gnaeus Draco, Horatius Piscinus, Silvanius Florus, Moravius Vado, Caius Aelius Ericius, and many others--all left the OP on the Ides of March of 2001, or as soon afterwards as prior commitments allowed. We formed an e-List called [Romanitas] in which we discussed whether we even wanted to form any kind of Roman organization; and if so, what its nature and form should be. My essay, "A New Foundation", was one product of this group.

The Societas Via Romana is the other.

We knew we mainly wanted to discuss and share about Ancient Rome in a friendly and informative way. We knew we did not want to be any kind of micronation; indeed, we wanted to keep politics to an absolute minimum, having seen it destroy the Other Place. And some of us, from the very first, were extremely reluctant to accept people who were also members of NovaRoma, or to have any contact with that organization whatsoever.

Tiberius Coruncanius was one of these. I do not know what his experience(s) of the OP might have been, or even if he was ever a Citizen of that Place. But he has a highly-negative image of them, which was shared by most of us who'd been in the original exodus.

However, in the interim, the rest of us have learned to talk rationally about NovaRoma. He has not. I sent him a very long PM describing NR as it is today--an organization of close to 2000 members, all over the world, with more interest in holding Roman gatherings than in masturbating on the Internet. Even still, it is not exactly the House of Sweetness and Light; but it's a lot better than it was, and is finally getting off the floor after a disastrous beginning. Magistrates have posted their opinions that ex-Cives like me are owed an apology, and that NovaRoma had fallen into the habit of legislating things that were none of its business. I do believe the Place has even learned to laugh at itself.

But the critical thing about NovaRoma is that, whatever our opinion of the thing, it is a big part of the Roman scene. We can't get away from them; they hold, sponsor and attend Roman events, arrange lodgings, sell merchandise, talk to people. This was my main point in my letter to the Consul: that we can't keep pretending NR doesn't exist; that we cannot arbitrarily dismiss them as 'the Enemy'; that we need to base our assessments of them on current information, not on a four-year-old grudge; in short, that there was no longer any purpose to be served by pretending there wasn't an elephant in the room.

I never got a reply from the Consul to my PM. But it was right after that that he went all non-linear on us, ranting about our wrong direction, NovaRoma's skirts, Aventine Seccessions, Menenius Agrippa, making nice with the Enemy and all that rot.

So maybe this whole thing was my fault? >({|;-)

In fide,
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
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'nother APB...?

Postby Aldus Marius on Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:03 am

Salvete sodales...

It took a while to dawn on me, but I can't seem to find anything by or on Kaeso Duellius either. He no longer has an account on the Board; his posts are all missing; their replies answer empty air, sowing confusion. Topics he started are now attributed to "Guest"...and he was one of the Aediles last year.

I don't know what this means. I'd rather it didn't mean anything...but there it is. Kaeso's gone too. Neither Tiberius Draco nor myself have been able to figure out how they removed themselves so completely.

** shrugs unhappily; he liked Kaeso... **

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