decretum Dionysium de nominibus

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decretum Dionysium de nominibus

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:02 am

Salvete!

This decretum ought to set new standards for nomenclature in SVR. This was an idea of my colleague Mus and has been worked out by me, with input from Orcus, Piscinus and Curio.

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DECRETUM DIONYSIUM DE NOMINIBUS

Preamble

This decretum seeks to clarify and further work out the principles laid down in the Regula Fundamentalis, article III.4.f with regards to the (selection of) personal names in the Societas Via Romana and the historicity thereof.

I. All members of the Societas Via Romana shall have a Roman name consisting of at least a praenomen (first name) and a nomen genticilium (surname). Applicants and members alike may freely select a cognomen (nickname). Agnomina (names of honour) can only be accorded by the Senatus.

II. The names of the members of the Societas Via Romana shall be Latin in form and structure, and as close to authentic Latin names as possible.

IIa. Towards that end, the censores shall, no later than the Ides of February each calendar year, draft a list of praenomina and nomina genticilia that applicants may choose from upon their becoming a member. The censores are encouraged to draft this list in cooperation with the Senatus.

IIa.1. A censor, consul, a praetor or at least three other Senatores have the right to put this list up for discussion and approval in the Senatus, but the same list may not be voted on by the Senate more than twice.

IIa.2. The nomina genticilia on the selected list shall automatically include, but are not limited to, the nomina genticilia already extant in the Societas Via Romana. Applicants shall also have the liberty of creating their own nomen genticilium, provided that they are accepted by the censores.

IIa.3. Applicants shall have the liberty of creating their own cognomen, provided that they do not violate article II. The censores may optionally add a selectable list of cognomina.

IIa.4. There shall be two separate selection lists for male and female names. Applicants may choose between either list, so long as their chosen Latin name is consistent in all parts (praenomen, nomen and cognomen) with regard to the name's gender.

IIb. A censor shall have the right to refuse an applicant's choice of name grounds other than a violation of article II if:

IIb.1. The choice of name is deemed vulgar, offensive or counter the spirit of tolerance of the Societas Via Romana; or if

IIb.2. The chosen name is already in use; and/or if

IIb.3. The applicant has chosen more than one nomen genticilium and/or more than one cognomen; and/or if

IIb.4. The applicant has selected both male and female names.

III. In all cases described under IIb, the acting censor shall try to mediate with the applicant until a solution is reached. If none is reached to the satisfaction of the applicant, said applicant may appeal to the praetores under the provisions of the Regula Fundamentalis III.1.c.

IV. The authority of censores shall also extend to names chosen prior to the adoption of this decretum. The members carrying a name or names in violation of article II or its subordinated articles will be privately informed by the censores of this matter, and will suggest alternatives to their choice of names. They will work towards a solution that is satisfying for both parties. If none is reached to the satisfaction of the member, said member may appeal to the praetores to impose a solution after hearing both parties.

V. In the procedures described in the articles above, the censores are advised to inform the Senatus of their doings.

Va. They may also appoint scribae with knowledge of Latin and Latin names to assist them with these specific tasks. These shall have no special status but will be granted the title of 'nomenclator'.

Vb. If neither of the censores has a knowledge of Latin, they shall appoint at least two scribae as described in Va, who have knowledge of Latin and Latin names.

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Valete,
Gn. Dionysius Draco
Last edited by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Publius Dionysius Mus on Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:22 pm

Salvete!

This decretum is now into effect, and the Senatus has also decided that this is retro-active. This means that all members who have an incorrect name, will be contacted by the censores, who will ask if you would like to change your name. This is of course not obligatory, but we strongly advise the members with a wrong name to change it, because correct names add a lot to the credibility of the Societas Via Romana.

For your information, I hereby post the incorrect names:

1. PRAENOMEN
From our current members, these are the ones with an unattested praenomen (they should be asked to change their name):

Aelius Silvius Lanius Martinus
Agrippina Valeria Espanica
Aletheia Iulia Hypathia
Alexander Dionysius Hellenos
Alexandra Eleutheria Eudocia
Amulius Scipio Leonidas
Anyte Aletheia Helena
Ariadne Dionysia Veneta
Ariadne Sergia Fausta
Cornelius Moravius Laureatus Armoricus
Drusilla Kinetosa Germanica
Flavius Claudius Iulianus (Flavus is correct)
Hamilcar Iunius Massiensis
Helena Eleutheria
Hiera Iulia Minervina
Homeros Astarius Gothinius
Isodoros Helios Phoenix
Leonidas Helios Phoenix
Lucianus Dionysius Bibens
Paulus Moravius Brennus (suggestion: Paullus)
Perikles Eleutherius Cicero
Philippos Helios Gallicus
Quintia Aurelia Verania Concordia (suggestion: Quinta)
Rhadamantha Dionysia Graecula
Romulus Aurelius Orcus
Romulus Iulius Ursus
Saxus Pitrinius Atheniensis
Tarquinius Dionysius Draco
Teresia Oregonia Medica
Velia Salicia Flora
Victoria Durmia Trivia
Violentilla Titinia Saltatrix
Xantippe Helia Allegra
Vel Moravius Lupus
Xantippe Helia Lania

NOTE: we have Caius and Gaius, I think we should choose one the two and stick to it. I suggest Gaius, as it corresponds best with Gnaeus (we don't have Cnaeus in the SVR).
NOTE 2: If people want something Greek, Punic or whatever in their name, I suggest they choose an appropriate cognomen.


2. GENTILICIUM
Some of our current gentes have a wrong or unattested gentilicium. Those people should be asked to change their gentilicium. Here is a list, based on the current Album:

Gens Eleutheria
Gens Aletheia
Gens Faunia (Faunus / Fauna can be used as a cognomen)
Gens Durnovaria
Gens Moravia
Gens Kinetosa
Dionusius (should be changed to Dionysius)
Gens Astaria
Helios (should be changed to Helius)
Iudaeus
Tyrrhenus (Tyrrenus can be used as a cognomen)
Gens Bianchia
Rubicundus
Benedictus (can be used as cognomen)
Gens Oregonia
Sucinus (can be used as cognomen)
Gens Pitrinia
Coruncanus (suggestion: Coruncanius)
Gens Salicia


3. COGNOMINA
People joining the SVR are free to choose whatever cognomen they want, but they have to follow these simple rules (maybe these could also be added as a link on the application form?):
- 'w' and 'j' can not be used, 'k' and 'z' are very rare (but are used sometimes).
- It should be Latin, Greek or Celtic, but not mixed and with a correct ending (not Phulvianus, but Fulvianus ; a male member can not use Honora, but Honorus ; etc.)
- agnomina are not allowed, these can only be accorded by the Senatus (Maximus, Invictus, Pius, Caesar, ...)


I thank you all in advance for your cooperation.

Valete bene
Publius Dionysius Mus

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Fishbait!

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:52 am

Magistri, I believe you have just opened a can of worms.

> IIa.2. The nomina genticilia on the selected list shall automatically include, but are not limited to, the nomina genticilia already extant in the Societas Via Romana. Applicants shall also have the liberty of creating their own nomen genticilium, provided that they are accepted by the censores.


...Well, that was the original agreement. Now you say the Senate has decided not to 'grandfather' existing members after all. At what meeting was this decided, and why was a matter of such sweeping impact to every member of the Societas not properly introduced to the Comitia? (And where the hell is our Senate report?)

No Moravii, sirs? --No Salicii? Excuse me, these were already approved by the Censores, they belong to friends of mine, and there should be no 'takebacks' now. A name is a personal thing, especially when consciously chosen by the bearer. I myself have been recently contemplating a change of praenomen, to something in perfect Medieval Latin, the better to honor a very notable man of my trade. Under the current Decretum you will not allow it. Excuse me??

Fix up the grammer, yes. Latinize, Latinize, and make sure the endings match. But after that...Our names were ours, some of 'em, before the Societas was born. I've been wearing mine, lacking only a personally-meaningful praenomen, for a dozen years and more. Rome is not a dead thing. She threw up new gentes and first names and nicknames all the time. The name Cnaeus Salix may be one undiscovered inscription away from impeccable legitimacy. And if not...? --It's still Roman, and Latin, and spelled correctly, and suits its owner. After that, really, it's nobody's business.

"Wrong or Unattested". Could that be another way to say "original"? What more beautiful, and fitting to our purpose, than a sound, original Roman name, a new thing where no one thought a new thing could be?

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Re: Fishbait!

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:23 am

Salve mi Mari,

Marius Peregrine wrote:Magistri, I believe you have just opened a can of worms.

> IIa.2. The nomina genticilia on the selected list shall automatically include, but are not limited to, the nomina genticilia already extant in the Societas Via Romana. Applicants shall also have the liberty of creating their own nomen genticilium, provided that they are accepted by the censores.


...Well, that was the original agreement. Now you say the Senate has decided not to 'grandfather' existing members after all. At what meeting was this decided, and why was a matter of such sweeping impact to every member of the Societas not properly introduced to the Comitia? (And where the hell is our Senate report?)


Nomina genticilia already extant in the SVR, yes, but they have to be considered nomina genticilia first. If they are clearly wrong, they are no nomina genticilia and should not be included on the list.

Marius Peregrine wrote: No Moravii, sirs? --No Salicii? Excuse me, these were already approved by the Censores, they belong to friends of mine, and there should be no 'takebacks' now.


I'm sorry to come across as a bit blunt here, but I see no other way of phrasing it: if it's incorrect, it's incorrect. As Mus points out, if we want people to take us seriously, we have to do things the right way.

Also, no one is forbidding the use of 'Moravius' or 'Dionysius' (my own name!) although they are unattested as nomina genticilia. They are original creations but Latin in form, and sound very plausible to latinate ears.

And lastly, we aren't forcing anyone to change their names, we are merely asking the people involved to change them.

Marius Peregrine wrote: A name is a personal thing, especially when consciously chosen by the bearer. I myself have been recently contemplating a change of praenomen, to something in perfect Medieval Latin, the better to honor a very notable man of my trade. Under the current Decretum you will not allow it. Excuse me??


We are the Societas Via Romana, not the Societas Via Mediaevia. On top of that, I think many Medieval or Renaissance latinisations of names are atrocious.

Marius Peregrine wrote: Fix up the grammer, yes. Latinize, Latinize, and make sure the endings match. But after that...Our names were ours, some of 'em, before the Societas was born. I've been wearing mine, lacking only a personally-meaningful praenomen, for a dozen years and more. Rome is not a dead thing. She threw up new gentes and first names and nicknames all the time. The name Cnaeus Salix may be one undiscovered inscription away from impeccable legitimacy. And if not...? --It's still Roman, and Latin, and spelled correctly, and suits its owner. After that, really, it's nobody's business.


Salix as a nomen gentilicium is very, very, very unlikely to have existed (as likely as there were really canals on Mars in 1877) because it did not end on -ius. There is a considerable leeway in the cognomina department, but the censores, both past and present, have seen such odd or malformed constructions in nomina gentilicia, that we have to put a stop to it.

And about names being nobody's business: not true. Censores decide whether to accept a name or not. Or would you accept a Zibanus Cocacolaius Dromedaris? Where would you draw the line?

Valete bene,
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