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The Empress Livia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 5:30 pm
by Anonymous
Salvete Omnes!

I have a question for those of you out there who are more knowledgeable than me as regards the history of the early empire.

Ever since I first came across the Empress Livia in the BBC's adaption of Robert Graves' "I Claudius" I have always taken it for granted that she really was guilty of the murder of nearly all her family and possibly even Augustus himself. Indeed I'm reading a more recent novel at the moment where again she once again appears in this nightmarish role.

It just occurred to me that this may just be supposition. Is there any actual evidence that she was responsible for the destruction of the Julians?

Valete!

Brutus

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:36 pm
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Salve Brute,

The problem with such histories is that there is no real concrete evidence readily available such as inscriptions, buildings, etc etc, that would testify of Livia's character.

I've always found it's a bit easy to blame the wife :). It's often suggested that the dynastic aspect of the empire was Livia's doing but I sincerely doubt this. Augustus was a very intelligent and able ruler and it would surprise me that he'd leave the outlines of a system of continuation of his work up to his wife. Even if it was her idea, he must have agreed with it. Indeed in Augustus' personal family tragedy struck several times but that it was Livia's doing can't really be proven. Also bear in mind that Roman writers, our main source for historical events such as these, were often not very kind towards women (although not as bad as in Greece, women came second to men in Rome as well). Plus, it was the typically Roman style to accuse others of outrageous acts or behaviour.

I hope that this may help...

Vale!
Draco

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:08 pm
by Horatius Piscinus
Salvete

It may aslo be pointed out that you are reading fiction, where such intrigues make a more interesting story. Most histories I have read dismiss these allegations against Livia. Interesting though that the Julio-Claudian emperors deified some of the females members of the mperial family, but never their matriarch Livia.

Valete

Diva Livia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:00 pm
by Anonymous
Livia asked her the son of his grandson, Caligula, do deify her but he never did it. Claudius did it.

I donĀ“t recall the source but I can found it out.

Drus

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:14 pm
by Horatius Piscinus
Salve Druse

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall reading that, too, that Claudius deified Livia along with others of his family. I do not recall her name, though, mentioned in the military calendar of Dura Europa from a later date. So I will check on that one.

Vale optime