Democracy

[Q. C. Locatus Barbatus]

Salvete,



Democracy... was it really a Greek invention?


Valete,


Loc

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salve Locate
Mayby not. It could easily been hanging around for years in the head of idealists and philosophers but it was for the first time used in Athens, Greece. It may have come from Mesopotamia where people were tired of kings succeeding kings who pretend to be the son of their supreme god or something like that. Its origines could ly anywhere.
Vale
Sokarus Aurelius Orcus

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

The word democracy definitely comes from Greek "demos" and "kratia".

The ideals may have, as Sokarus suggested, been sleeping among older peoples for centuries, but we can't deny that the first documented coining of the term and the use of something we can label democratic was in Athens, Greece. Still it was a far shot from 20th and 21st-century democracy: only male citizens could vote.

Scorpio

[Q. C. Locatus Barbatus]

Salvete,


You are referring to Perikles, I suppose. But I always heard it was a "fake democracy". The people "got" the votes, but in the end Perikles decided what to do.

Am I wrong?


Loc

[Anonymous]

Chaire Loctus,

on the contrary my friend! You cannot get as democratic as Perikles! He founded the 'Direct Democracy'. If any Democracy is false, it would be ours. We have more of an olicharchy, which we control only in a very minor way. If you'ld like, i'll explain why the Direct Democracy is the most democratic of all. For now I leave you with the choice.

Hellenos

[Anonymous]

Chaire Locatus,

I believe I know what you mean; it was the Delic-Attic Seebond that he abused in favour of Athens. For example, build the Parthrnon with its money.

Hellenos

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Chaire Alexander,

In a sense Greek democracy was more direct, but it also excluded women and slaves (I recall that metoiks couldn't vote as well... or am I wrong?). So that's not entirely democratic.

Kat'èrènèn,
Drakon

[Anonymous]

Chaire Locatus,

I must admit this is a favourate issue to me (stokpaardje) On the contrary, the civilisation was thus organised, that's how it worked. There was, then, no need for them to vote, they had other things to do. And the men took care of them, politically, as its was theír job. I do not believe that is injust. I believe it is more injust that we ripped the system out of context. Though I firmally agree that it is the best solution today. What do you think about sush a chorelist, given the context, the social enviroment?

eager for your reply,
chairetismous,

Hellenos

[Anonymous]

Chaire proceptorem µe,

sorry to have mistaken you for Locatus

Hellenos

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Chaire Alexander,

No prob . As long as Locatus and I can tell each other a part there is no problem, is there?

I may not have clearly gotten the meaning of what you said, but I hope you're not saying that modern women should, in your ideal, be deprived of their right to vote?

In any case, actually I don't really agree that Greek democracy is the best way to run a state. I think it leads to instability for a number of reasons. The first one is that, since the population also took part in the legislation efforts and in justice, it was easily swayed by demagogues who may not always have had noble intentions (cf the process against Sokrates, which made Plato detest Athenian democracy forever).

Of course, íf the population is reasonably educated it would be a little better (in ancient Greece this wasn't the case so people were even more suceptible to clever wordplays and sophisms), and I like the idea put forward by some modern political parties of referenda on important matters. It gives the people a sense of involvement. On the other hand, if for example 50 laws are created per year, this means that the population has to vote 50 times, which is I think about 3 times every month. Imagine the money wasted on campaigning, the time lost voting... eventually people will get very tired with politics. That's what I think .

Kat'èrènèn,
Drakon

[Anonymous]

Chaire Drakon,

by no means should our sociëty be deprived of woman insights! And other that make the representation as multicultural as the sociëty. But what I am actually trying to say, is that we keep in mind that we are talking of two very different times and places. For instance, a polis is not a state as we know it, even little Belgium and so on. Athenian Democracy would not be suitable fore Belgium ànd vice versa.

chairetismous,

Hellenos

[Anonymous]

You can never judge history by today's standards. I think Athens was truely a democracy given the values of their society and how the functioned.

[Anonymous]

I second that, it was nicely said.