Symposium Philosophicum III

This collegium and forum are dedicated to the study, discussion, re-creation and application of classical Roman and Greek religion and philosophy.

Moderator: Aldus Marius

Postby Curio Agelastus on Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:09 pm

**Curio coughs, and replies to Draco's announcement, "Er... I think not, amice. If I remember correctly, my starting first entitles me to a short speech to reply to the comment that the rest of you made. I'll delay my speech on peace in order to reply to the comments.**

Draco wrote:
Our good friend Curio claims that only personal knowledge exists.

Curio: I don't think so - unless the Punic girl really did fog my thoughts... No, looking at the records the scriba have made, I see that I spoke of absolute knowledge, not just personal knowledge.

Draco: It shows that he is definitely still a Briton, and not as Roman has he'd like to be, nonne (cheeky wink at Curio)?

Curio: Amice, I am quite happy being a hybrid, thank you. Bear in mind I don't just have Briton and Roman origins - I am also influenced by those Germanic peoples who will, in centuries to come, conquer Britannia - those known as the Saxons. **Curio considers the nature of this knowledge, and decides that if Draco can know of boomerangs, and Sokarus of glass, then Curio can have a time machine.** ;-)

Draco: Knowledge is not always bound to observation, by the way. Think of mathematics or physics. Mathematical knowledge is obtained without observation.

Curio: But look at mathematical knowledge that is gained without observation. All of it is based on earlier knowledge, more basic mathematics that does have a basis in observation. For instance, even the extremes of theoretical physics and mathematics, such as dark matter, was thought of when considering that the amount of matter in the universe and the speed the universe was expanding at did not match.

Draco: Curio sails around these limits by implying the infinite potential of a collective memory. But a collective of finite memories does not build an infinite one. In fact it never can.

Curio: But written knowledge, theoretically, can. Even assuming that knowledge is infinite, then knowledge does not only have to be stored in a mind. It can be stored on paper, stone, hard disks, and other such methods of storage.

I shall give my talks on absolute peace on Tuesday, amici.

**Curio sits again, glad that his philosophy has no stereotype - he is slightly safer from that loud voice in the audience.**
:-D
Marcus Scribonius Curio Agelastus
Rector ColHis, Senator

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
User avatar
Curio Agelastus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:38 pm

Postby Curio Agelastus on Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:14 am

Salvete,

So, the question is now: Is absolute peace possible?

In short, my answer is: no. As to why, I first state my own religious leanings - I'm an atheist. I therefore don't subscribe to the theory that absolute peace is possible through the acceptance of any particular deity.

Without the intervention of a benevolent deity, absolute peace is not possible, due to the problems of human nature. The pressures of the world - not just modern, of any era - combined with the way we face them means that we cannot attain absolute peace. Absolute peace of mind entails a complete acceptance of and contentment with one's lot in life. Such a trait is not inherent to the human race, because even the least ambitious person still has personal goals.

My apologies for the somewhat sketchy nature of this argument, but it's all I really have to say on the matter, hehe.

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
Marcus Scribonius Curio Agelastus
Rector ColHis, Senator

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
User avatar
Curio Agelastus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:38 pm

Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:39 pm

salvete
On the question if absolute peace is possible i have to go with Curio on this one and i will add my own comments. I think that peace is impossible. There will always be people against it and find it opression. We live in a world supposedly ruled by democracy (in most western countries) while its capitalism that rules the world and it is through capitalism that absolute peace is impossible because absolute peace isn't a concern for the averga capitalist only making more money. We all have to work to pay our bills, making us bitter that the rich get richer and we get poorer. In this kind of climate it is impossible to obtain absolute peace. This is one example.
Our very nature is rooted in the natural world. If we look at animals and how they behave, we can recognize our behaviour in theirs. One might say that we must give up our roots, i say that who ever says this is a fool.This behaviour, instinct is what kept us alive and going all these millenia.But still, these instinct, behaviour as i called it is still shown today by most people but not as clearly as it once was. Its this kind of behaviour that prevents us from btaining absolute peace. Look at nature. Through fights and deaths, the weak are separated from the strong and the strong get to reproduce themselves. It also keeps the community in balance so that it doesn't get overpopulated as our human communities today are. I disagree with Curio that a deity can save us and use its power to obtain absolute peace. All Gods know that life is for the strong and even if a deity does bring peace to us, i think it should also decide who gets to reproduce themselves and who not. Because if the weak reproduce themselves, and the strong don't, it will affect the whole community. That is how i see it.
valete bene
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Rector ColRel
Rogator
Princeps gentis Aureliae
User avatar
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 5:05 pm
Location: Ghent, Belgica

Postby Curio Agelastus on Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:26 pm

**From the audience, Curio metaphorically kicks himself. He reminds himself not to refute any other theories, since it seems everyone thinks he is in fact proposing those theories, when he is actually trying to refute them**. :roll:
Marcus Scribonius Curio Agelastus
Rector ColHis, Senator

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
User avatar
Curio Agelastus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:38 pm

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:15 pm

Salvete amici philosophi,

Well then, in good ol' sophist tradition let me start by delivering comments on my fellow symposiants here.

Mi Curio, I agree with you that absolute peace is impossible, although I completely disagree with your reasoning. Even the existence of a God could prevent absolute peace from occuring, depending on the type of God we are dealing with. Also, peace and God have no special relationship. If, for the sake of argument, I believed that absolute peace existed in a godless world, why could that not be? Personally I don't see the connection.

I do agree, however, with what you have said regaring acceptance and ambition. As long as there is desire and ambition, peace is impossible. Some philosophies or religions strive for the extinguishing of ambitions and attachments. Somehow, someway this makes sense to prevent suffering from happening (because, after all, we assume that absolute peace requires the absence of suffering, at least on an invididual basis), but on the other hand it's unnatural and a noble way to commit emotional suicide.

Sokare, while I agree with most of what you have said, I think Plato would be rather upset with your acknowledgement of our animal sides! By the way, it's not because we are rooted in reptillian instincts that we should behave like them. We have evolved beyond that, and I suggest that we use these capacities in our own advantage rather than to return to a more primitive level of society and way of life.

I tend to agree most with Coruncianus, even though our respective outlooks on life are seperated by a million miles and a million different thoughts and words. On individual basis, peace is possible. There have been cases of those enlightened individuals who had flashes of insight, or long years of complete tranquility. Such states of mind however, don't last forever, or at least not in my opinion, because man is at least physically a changing organism. Accepting change is very important.

On a global basis, peace is impossible. Even if war dies out (which eventually may happen), there will still be economic, social and cultural competition. In a sense this is also good because it improves the overall quality of the human race and what it does. Differences are good!

Thank you.

Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:31 pm

Salve Draco
Thank you for your comments. I think i demonstrated that even though one defends the philosophy he has chosen, he doesn't always has to agree with the founder of that philosophy. To be honest my philosophy on life and all are more of a mix between platonism/ neoplatonism and a nature philosophy. To be honest i would have mixed feelings when we are ruled by a deity. I would prefer that this didn't happen but i would favor a reign of the Gods over men. Anyway Curio don't think that i use your ideas to form a opinion of my own. To be honest i had already formed a message in my head for this topic so there is no need to be alarmed that i only use another mans ideas.
That is all for now.
vale optime
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Rector ColRel
Rogator
Princeps gentis Aureliae
User avatar
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 5:05 pm
Location: Ghent, Belgica

peace

Postby Q. C. Locatus Barbatus on Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:18 pm

Ah, this is an easy one!

Nope.


Oh, you also want to know why? You should have told that earlier... Well it's about this:


AS humans are animals (and thus animals humans) we can live peacefully next to each other as long as there are enough supplies. Once our supplies get limited, we will fight about it. It's rather simple, isn't it?

Human species will continue to grow. The goal of every species is to become as dominant (thus safe) as possible. The resources won't grow as fast as the species, and the supplies are limited (I forsee that in the future one nation will attack another because of their 'nafta' supplies). So people will extinguish themselves. It's only a matter of time...

I hope next subject will be more chalenging... As will be the amount of wine I will drink. :wink:
Quintus Claudius Locatus Barbatus
Rector
Princeps Gentis Claudiae
Consul
Senator
Patricius
Q. C. Locatus Barbatus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:32 pm
Location: Gent

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:06 pm

Salvete philosophi!

Symposium III has now more or less come to an end. I would like to thank all participants for their contributions. A summary of this debate will be put up on the site.

Well, let the dancers come in, and let the small orchestra in the corner play! Let's be cheerful now and have wine!

Valete bene!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Previous

Return to Collegium Religionum et Philosophiarum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests