Why Gods

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salvete

One of the things people will ask besides the questions "what is Hellenismos or Religio Romano and why?" You will likely get the question why one worships Gods, especially the Roman and Hellenic Gods whose religion supposed to be faded out for the last 1600 years. Not to mention that someone like me will be asked why i chose to worship the God of the Underworld, which symbolized death and afterlife.
We can write essays about our choses Gods but somehow that wil not cut it. I suggest that everyone could write a article why they chose this path and their patron/ matron deities. It could be beneficial for everyone. What do you say? Its not so much of a project but more a idea to rid some of the prejudices people might have towards Gods like Mars, Ares, Haides, etc...
valete optime in pace deorum

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salve Sokare,

I don't really understand what you mean. Why would you write an "apology" (in the original sense, not in the meaning of an excuse) for your own faith? As if practicioners have something they would need to defend? Mind you, I'm not criticising your idea, I'm just wondering what the use would be of such a project...

By the way, it's "Religio RomanA" ("religio" is female and as such the adjective, belonging to the first declension, becomes "romana"). "Hellenismos" is a modern word. Although it's a bit of a problem to describe Greek religion with one word, preferrably from ancient Greek itself, I wouldn't use "Hellenismos" all too often, not only because it's a fictional word but also because "hellenism" has other connotations than religion only.

Optime vale!!
Draco

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salve Draco

Thanks for the checking the spelling. Anyway it is not so much meant for being an apology, but more as a look into personal view and/ or gnosis towards the Gods. On most Hellenic pagan sites i find personal views of the Gods that they serve. My idea was to be able to post some articles on personal views of the Gods here or on the site or both. But the difference lies in the fact that they were written by several people and not by a single person. People learn something about these Gods when an essay about these Gods is posted but if it has a personal view attached to it, than they see these Gods from two perspectives: 1) from a more scholar/ amature point of a view and staying objective and 2) from a personal, subjective point of view and thus learning about the Gods through the eyes of the people who worship them. Its a idea.
Vale optime

[Horatius Piscinus]

Salvete

So instead of an "apologia" Orcus is talking about us writing personal testaments. That is a good idea. We do tend to get a little dry in trying to tell of the beliefs in ancient times, and it does lack something of the personal touch. I imagine too that we would learn of the different approaches people take towards their religion as well as to the particualr gods they most include in their practices. Some here I know have a more philosophical approach, while others do have a personal approach. It will be interesting to see what all may be among us.

Valete
Moravius Piscinus

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salve Piscine
That is exactly what i was heading for with this topic. I assume that we won't just be writing about our faith but also on the Gods who are our patrons/ matrons?
vale optime in pace deorum

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Ah I see. Now I understand. Thanks for clarifying Sokare .

Draco

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

now only volunteers who want to participate?

[Anonymous]

hellenismo sis a good word indeed
he was created by Imperator Julianus II to describe positively the paganism beside christianity in the 4th Century when he attended to renew it
Julianus wanted to unified paganism with this word toward the many worships, philosophies, cultures and Gods witch made the relaity of paganism at the end of the Roamn Empire, especially to underline the unity created trough centuries between greek and Roman religions

I know we have today some recons, Greek pagans or Romans ones, ho try to separate the two ways as much as possible but our paganism is something living not dead and it is also a possibility to renew it to come frm its state at the end of the roman empire, and if we prefer Athenms in the -Vth Century or the roman republic times we may havejust an historical point of view and interest, a paseist meaning and not a real religious actual feeling
Philippos helios

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salvete,

So this means the word "hellenismos" did really exist? I thought it was a modern creation.

I do agree with the rest. I would think it's very hard for practicioners of the RR to rule out all "foreign" influences. Of course, I think it's still the individual's choice how many "foreign" influences he or she accepts. I expressed similar thought in my eclecticism topic here, actually.

Valete,
Draco

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salvete

well hellenismos has two meanings: one is the religion of the greeks and the other spreading the culture of the Greeks across the middle east by Alexander the Great.
btw: there are some Hellenic pagan organisations within Europe, mostly Greece and they are xenophobic from what i have heard. They don't like the idea that strongers, foreigners worship their Gods. It could a minority, but still i find this policy towards foreigners worshipping the Hellenic Gods to be very unhellenic.
valete
Romulius

[Anonymous]

it is completly false, it is a myth i may say you

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

you could be right about it. Like i said, i have had not personal epxerience with this, it comes from a third person.
Romulus

[Anonymous]

see this site
http://homepage.mac.com/dodecatheon/2.html

Philippos

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salve Romule,

btw: there are some Hellenic pagan organisations within Europe, mostly Greece and they are xenophobic from what i have heard. They don't like the idea that strongers, foreigners worship their Gods. It could a minority, but still i find this policy towards foreigners worshipping the Hellenic Gods to be very unhellenic.

I also heard of such organisations. They're not only confined to Hellenic religion but other such discriminatory orgs or groups also exist in Celtic druidism, Norse paganism and Slavic paganism.

I think this has to do with some people feeling lost in a modern world and desperately trying to cling onto historical heritages to give them a sense of certainty and security. Of course, hellenism was something totally different than the thing some of these fundamentalists are trying to promote but that goes for most extremist reconstructionist groups. By claiming to be orthodox and "true" they usually miss the larger picture.

Vale bene,
Draco

[Anonymous]

Salvete

Of course, hellenism was something totally different than the thing some of these fundamentalists are trying to promote but that goes for most extremist reconstructionist groups. By claiming to be orthodox and "true" they usually miss the larger picture

The larger picture being that the religious traditions of ancient Europe can’t be subdivided according to modern ethnic lines.

I don’t know how one can really separate Greco-Roman Classical religion into two camps and then present them reconstructed as indigenous folk religions. It’s a futile exercise or am I missing the point, is it just recreational religion ?

I’ve also heard that the Emperor Julian coined the term Hellenismos. If that's true then Religio Romana and Hellenismos are, more or less, interchangeable terms. Along with, I think, Paganism and Cultus Deorum.

Vale

[Horatius Piscinus]

Salvete

In order to distinguish out Roman completely from Greek, or Egyptian, or Syrian culti deorum you must select a specific period of time. That is what reconstructionist seem to attempt. At a certain point Rome became a Hellenistic society, although not a Greek society. By Hellenistic I imply several things, among them that Roman society had become a cosmopolitan, Mediterrannean society that supported many peoples and beliefs, while tolerating still others. The same was true of the Religio Romana over its history. In Julian's time can a Religio Romana be distinguished out from Greek practices? Yes, there still remained certain aspects of the various culti deorum ex patria where celebrations were marked by local customs. But on the intellectual level where explanations were being devised you could say there was one generalized form of paganism. For today, in our societies, I think you can retain a distinct identity of following either a Roman, Greek or other path in the manner of your practice. But if you then try to discuss such topics as pagan theology you will primarily rely on the Hellenistic sources such as Julian, Proclus, Plotinus, and then for the Romans going back through Cicero perhaps but still to Plato and other Greek philosophers. Some reconstructions of the Religio Romana seek to avoid such Greek complications and appear to me to follow ritual practice without understanding or benefit. In other words, they are not practicing a religio at all but are merely reenacting. Religion is more than just a set of ritual performances and to limited any religious tradition to its rites alone is to debase it.

Valete
Moravius Piscinus