What's death?

This collegium and forum are dedicated to the study, discussion, re-creation and application of classical Roman and Greek religion and philosophy.

Moderator: Aldus Marius

What's death?

Postby Q. C. Locatus Barbatus on Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:06 pm

Salvete!

I know this topics floats somewhere between the Col rel and the Col phi, but I thought I'll give it a go.

What does death mean to you? What is death? I'll give you my vision:

I always liked to believe there is an afterlife. But now I have come to the conclusion that "afterlife" is something that people tend to believe in because they're afraid of the ending of this life.

Now I'm rather believing in a scientific explanation: when our body can't cope with everyday life anymore it will die. With dying I really mean fade away. We will not be aware of it, as our body is connected with our thoughts. Actually, our body is our thoughts, as thoughts are a kind of biomedical reactions in our brains. Thus when we die, also our thoughts stop. And no-one can imagine what that means. It is not "knowing you're here anymore" or "not knowing you're here anymore" but "not not knowing you're here anymore". You do not realize you're dead. Quite frightening actually.

And what does death mean to me? Well, that's a kind of dual feeling. On the one hand it must be final rest, keeping in mind you don't know it, but still. On the other hand it is the ending of yourself, sublime dot after our life. And that isn't a happy thing. But as said, you don't realize it. Although realising that that end is comming close must be disturbing.

What do you think?

Vale,

Loc
Quintus Claudius Locatus Barbatus
Rector
Princeps Gentis Claudiae
Consul
Senator
Patricius
Q. C. Locatus Barbatus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:32 pm
Location: Gent

Postby Anonymous on Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:16 pm

Chaîre Locatus,

a nice introduction you made! Gives me the opportunity to tell you my findings. I have always been, and tend to still be very critical and sceptical towards convictions. Within the same line of thought, I explored a lot of philosophical questions and answers with a very open mind. Therefor what I think so far is that we can define truthe and reliable knowledge within a certain referencial encadrement. Like the scientific accomplishments, they are true, but just within the scientific "biosfeer"/world/... ENCADREMENT. But that isn't an answer, it's loser-talk, for the real reality, which we are in fact discussing will remain a mistery with this answer.

chairetísmous,

Héllenos
Anonymous
 

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:55 pm

Salvete,

How can you know there is nothing after death? You can't!

I think it would be pretty arrogant to assume that one can know what happens after death. Is there an afterlife? Perhaps. But perhaps not. I'm still undecided on the issue.

On the one hand, there are many things we can't yet scientifically explain. Many people have seen "spirits" or hear strange voices, see ghosts or experience supernatural things. Together with other parascientific phenomena such as UFOs it's very hard to have reasonable discussions about afterlife without being forced to take positions pro or contra. Since I heard many experiences from people - first hand experiences - I tend to keep an open mind regarding such phenomena.

If there really *is* something after death, I think the most logical thing would be reincarnation. But there could just as well be nothing.

This prompts another question: would you like to live forever?

And, back to the question at hand: what *is* death? Death is, in my opinion, the absence of all normal physical functions in your body, a combination of brain death, a heart that has stopped beating and lungs that have stopped drawing breath.

Valete bene!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Anonymous on Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:05 pm

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:there are many things we can't yet scientifically explain
but Drákon µou, do we have to!
Anonymous
 

salve

Postby Q. C. Locatus Barbatus on Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:35 pm

A lot to respond to:

On the one hand, there are many things we can't yet scientifically explain.


I must have explained beter. I do not rely on scientific theories for all my answers, but I do for this question. My style is quite eclectic. And there are indeed a lot of things that science (still) can't explain.

But that isn't an answer, it's loser-talk, for the real reality, which we are in fact discussing will remain a mistery with this answer.


I think scientific answers are always true, and it does not matter when or where or on which topic in which 'encadrement'. The earth goes around the sun, no matter in which surrounding you are talking about it. I see it as a challenge to merge science and philosophy; and not to separate them.

And, back to the question at hand: what *is* death? Death is, in my opinion, the absence of all normal physical functions in your body, a combination of brain death, a heart that has stopped beating and lungs that have stopped drawing breath.


So you're not dead when you're braindead?

This prompts another question: would you like to live forever?


Two possible answers:
    YES: because I'm afraid of death; not of what lies behind it (because that's nothing) and not of getting old. But of the switch between life and death.
    NO: Because it must be pretty boring out here if you see the ages passing by, knowing that you will see the same over and over again. And I don't think life will be fulfilling, and it will become a penalty on its own.


Vale,

Loc
Quintus Claudius Locatus Barbatus
Rector
Princeps Gentis Claudiae
Consul
Senator
Patricius
Q. C. Locatus Barbatus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:32 pm
Location: Gent

Re: salve

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:37 pm

Salve mi Locate,

Quintus Claudius Locatus wrote:I must have explained beter. I do not rely on scientific theories for all my answers,


You don't? What else do you rely on then? :)

Quintus Claudius Locatus wrote:...but I do for this question. My style is quite eclectic. And there are indeed a lot of things that science (still) can't explain.


Quintus Claudius Locatus wrote:I think scientific answers are always true, ...


Depends on what you define as science. Medieval astronomists were convinced of their own honesty and truthfulness even though they believed the wrong things because they used the wrong methods. Even when you replace the word "science" by "logic" you might still wind up with the wrong answers. Logic is a very good tool to use but it also depends on the type of logic you're applying.

For example, in dealing with insane persons it's no use trying to apply formal or informal logic. The logic used in dealing with these people is based on experience, empathy and associations. And what would you say about instincts?

Quintus Claudius Locatus wrote:... and it does not matter when or where or on which topic in which 'encadrement'. The earth goes around the sun, no matter in which surrounding you are talking about it. I see it as a challenge to merge science and philosophy; and not to separate them.


To me philosophy *is* a form of science, but is so amorphous that it can take many forms. This is its great strength but at the same time its great weakness as well.

Quintus Claudius Locatus wrote:So you're not dead when you're braindead?


Not when your heart still beats and your lungs are drawing breath. Should one of these two stop as well, however, you're dead :).

Quintus Claudius Locatus wrote:This prompts another question: would you like to live forever?

Two possible answers:
    YES: because I'm afraid of death; not of what lies behind it (because that's nothing) and not of getting old. But of the switch between life and death.
    NO: Because it must be pretty boring out here if you see the ages passing by, knowing that you will see the same over and over again. And I don't think life will be fulfilling, and it will become a penalty on its own.


Some philosophers have contended that fear of death is actually a fear of life itself. Fear to live life at its fullest. Others have said that fear of death is a masked form of fear that we actually have no own identity. When we die, we dissolve. What once was "I" has gone, will gradually degenerate into lumps of rotten flesh, bones, etc etc, until nothing remains. And what is the true self then? Do we have one? That's perhaps something for another topic.

But as for my thoughts on my own question, my impulsive answer would also be yes, and then perhaps no for the reasons you've given. Only if I was certain a reasonable amount of people would be immortal, just like me, I'd chance it. Otherwise I'd end up killing myself. This is one of the reasons why I can't understand why these immortal guys in Highlander feel the necessity to kill one another. If there can be only one, he's gonna be damn lonely ;).

Vale bene!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:38 pm

Yay, the above was my 400th posting. CENTURIO!

I feel my ego swell.... 8)

Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Anonymous on Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:19 pm

Don't fear what you don't know. Death is the end of all thoughts and feelings. I don't know what that means exactly. Me or anyone else will never find out what it means. Even if I die, I will not know.
Anonymous
 

"Death!" - "No, that's the cat, Granpa!"

Postby Q. C. Locatus Barbatus on Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:45 pm

Salvete!

You don't? What else do you rely on then?


I rely on common sense (I mean, realities that most people have accepted) for matters that are not definitly sorted out yet; I rely on philosophy and history etc. I look upon science as something that proves (and thus can't be rejected) certain facts (as they become facts when proved).

Depends on what you define as science. Medieval astronomists were convinced of their own honesty and truthfulness even though they believed the wrong things because they used the wrong methods.


So this is not science. Because they weren't able to prove what they were saying; they only thought it was like they said.

For example, in dealing with insane persons it's no use trying to apply formal or informal logic. The logic used in dealing with these people is based on experience, empathy and associations. And what would you say about instincts?


Although this is far to general (and cliché when speaking of 'insane') I am not talking about things that people consider to be right, but of things that are right. Logic is a method to archieve something, not a result. And logic can be right or wrong, untill science proves it.

Instincts does disappear when reason is taking over. It doesn't disappear completely, because there are areas where our reason doesn't come.

To me philosophy *is* a form of science, but is so amorphous that it can take many forms. This is its great strength but at the same time its great weakness as well.


For me philosophy isn't science. I think philosophy is a kind of pre-science. But I should stop looking like a scientist. I'm actually quite sceptical towards scientist and scientology. They often tend to be right, although they're not.

But as for my thoughts on my own question, my impulsive answer would also be yes, and then perhaps no for the reasons you've given. Only if I was certain a reasonable amount of people would be immortal, just like me, I'd chance it. Otherwise I'd end up killing myself.


Actually I had to think of Tolkiens' Lord of the Rings - all right, I'm a Tolkien-nerd, I admit!! :roll: - in which he writes that the immortal Elves faded away and died eventually because they became so very tired of living and of the world. I think this would happen to us too.

Vale,

Loc
Quintus Claudius Locatus Barbatus
Rector
Princeps Gentis Claudiae
Consul
Senator
Patricius
Q. C. Locatus Barbatus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:32 pm
Location: Gent

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sun Jun 08, 2003 6:18 pm

Salve Aenima,

Ænima wrote:Don't fear what you don't know.


Fear of the unknown is quite healthy and has kept some people from dying. Sometimes fear, as a response to an unknown situation or hypothesis, is irrational and ungrounded.

However, I think you're reversing the situation here. I think all fear is ultimately fear of death, and most certainly fear of the unknown.

Additionally, a world without fear would be a world without hope (an emotion which is also based on hypotheses of the unknown).

Vale bene,
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Re: "Death!" - "No, that's the cat, Granpa!&a

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sun Jun 08, 2003 6:27 pm

Salve Locate,

Q. C. Locatus Barbatus wrote:I rely on common sense (I mean, realities that most people have accepted) for matters that are not definitly sorted out yet; I rely on philosophy and history etc. I look upon science as something that proves (and thus can't be rejected) certain facts (as they become facts when proved).


Although I don't doubt your good intentions, common sense is dynamite. Everyone has it, but no one can accurately define it. I usually become suspicious when I hear people appeal to the common sense. If everyone has a slightly different common sense, what is common about it? :)

Q. C. Locatus Barbatus wrote:... Logic is a method to archieve something, not a result. And logic can be right or wrong, untill science proves it.


Give an example of wrong logic. I don't understand what you're saying here.

Q. C. Locatus Barbatus wrote:Actually I had to think of Tolkiens' Lord of the Rings - all right, I'm a Tolkien-nerd, I admit!! :roll: - in which he writes that the immortal Elves faded away and died eventually because they became so very tired of living and of the world. I think this would happen to us too.


Yes, most likely. Only Tolkien makes, in my eyes, some kind of error in his reasoning. Elves *know* they are immortal from the start. So if they are indeed a lot like Humans, they should have some sort of age of depression and would either commit suicide or fade away after some period of time (as you say) or would long since have ceased to exist because they realised life was pointless. However, since they know they are immortal, this could also mean something else: they could have learnt to cope with it (as they should) because it is an inate characteristic. To reverse the example: cats don't become depressed because they live only 15 years... Constitutionally immortal people shouldn't become depressed either, then ;).

Vale!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

death- afterlife and immortality

Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Sun Jun 08, 2003 8:03 pm

Salve Locate
Or should i say Barbate? :)
Anywa concerning death. Death is a mysterious phenomon because we can't see it or actually feel it until its to late. We understand most of the scienitific side of death, but yet death is a topic that most people don't like and don't want to talk about it, but they do it through literature. Why do you think Highlander the movie as the series were made, or movies about immortality and vampires are so popular. What vampires are is more a topic for the collegium religionis since it has some theological and mythological as social content. Everyone is affraid of death because nobody can say for sure what will happen afterwards. Yes, we know what will happen to our bodies, but not what will happen to our being- our soul, conscience. We recognize that every living thing is a living being that has a certain conscience, but nobody knows whap happens to it when we dy.There are people claming to have seen a tunnel of light or have seen red, firelike place where it was hot (a image should pop up on hell when we here certain descriptions) A afterlife is something that shows up in every religion because it can answer certain questions like what happens to ut. We as human beings need it. It is not really about fearing the end of ones life, but more about fearing of a dark void- kind of like ending up in a black hole. They fear that there is nothing after we have died. Fear of dying only adds up if you fear this. If you look at the different view of the Underworld that the Greeks and Romans had, you see that everyone has a different opinion about it and it is not such a beautiful place as some would like to see it.
Science has said that immortality can never be accomplished because from the moment we are born we begin the degenerate. As we grow older, this process is speeded up. In the beginning this process is on a small scale. Yet stories about immortality are popular, even in antiquity.
I remember the story of Eos who fell in love with a mortal and asks Zeus to grant him immortality, but fails to ask him eternal youth. What happens, the mortal degenerate until he is a vegetable but doesn't dy like he normally should do. I don't remember the name of the mortal, but this story has a punch line. Immortality is nothing without the eternal youth, because being immortal and being blessed with the eternal youth means that you won't degenerate over time and you will stay young. Modern day stories seem to define immortality as a being who will never age, stay forever young but doesn't dy either. The Greeks appearently saw this differently. They knew that immortality comes from the Gods along with the eternal youth. If you really wanted to live forever like those guys on highlander, than you need eternal youth. The two go hand in hand for the eternal life, the one without the other means suffering and would be a poisonious gift. The only question remains is: are you willing to live forever? There is a big difference between immortality and not wanting to be immortal. If you don't want to be immortal, you will see it as torture.
vale

Romulus
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Rector ColRel
Rogator
Princeps gentis Aureliae
User avatar
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 5:05 pm
Location: Ghent, Belgica

Postby Curio Agelastus on Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:00 pm

Salvete omnes,

I'll reply to various people's ideas here.

Firstly, Draco, you ask for an example of where logic is wrong. I say Zeno. Both common sense and logic collapse when faced with the might of Zeno. (Resistance is futile! ;-) ) Oh yes, everyone knows that Zeno was wrong, but it's damn hard to prove, which is why so many philosophers have felt the need to refute him. You might say that this means it is not common sense or logic that is wrong, but Zeno's concept of them. I say, the fact that Zeno, at first glance, appears to be correct, means that our own concept of logic and common sense are in some way flawed. As one famous person said, and I completely forget who, "The problem with common sense is that it's so common."

Why should immortality protect you from depression? All immortality is is a tendency to live forever, not immunity to all things deemed unhealthy.

As for the prospect of immortality for humans... I cannot think of anything worse, either for the world in general, or as an idea for myself. Immortality would take all meaning out of life. Why bother doing anything? You could always do so in a hundred years.

A lot of fear can certainlly be dispelled by considering it dispassionately, but ultimately there wil still be fear there. I don't think it always boils down to fear of the unknown.

And my thoughts on death are: the end. I accept that I can't know this, it's what I believe. The true self that someone mentioned is merely the constantly evolving character of a person, and that fades away when the body dies.

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
Marcus Scribonius Curio Agelastus
Rector ColHis, Senator

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
User avatar
Curio Agelastus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:38 pm

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:47 am

Salve Curio,

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:Firstly, Draco, you ask for an example of where logic is wrong. I say Zeno. Both common sense and logic collapse when faced with the might of Zeno. (Resistance is futile! ;-) ) Oh yes, everyone knows that Zeno was wrong, but it's damn hard to prove, which is why so many philosophers have felt the need to refute him. You might say that this means it is not common sense or logic that is wrong, but Zeno's concept of them. I say, the fact that Zeno, at first glance, appears to be correct, means that our own concept of logic and common sense are in some way flawed.


Zeno didn't know the theory of relativity yet. Had it existed at the time he lived, he wouldn't have become so famous ;). I admit you have a point, though. Formal logic is not always right.

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote: As one famous person said, and I completely forget who, "The problem with common sense is that it's so common."


Funny. And I contend the opposite! :D

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:Why should immortality protect you from depression? All immortality is is a tendency to live forever, not immunity to all things deemed unhealthy.


No, no, I think you misunderstood what I was saying (if it was me you were replying to). I was not saying Elves were free from depression (well perhaps they could be, though, since we don't know how their psyche works), but that they might not get depressed because of their own immortality. Why not? Because it was always there.

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:As for the prospect of immortality for humans... I cannot think of anything worse, either for the world in general, or as an idea for myself. Immortality would take all meaning out of life. Why bother doing anything? You could always do so in a hundred years.


As the devil's advocate, I'd like to note that someone with a lot of ideas and plans could also do much more in their lifetime. What if Einstein had lived forever?

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:A lot of fear can certainlly be dispelled by considering it dispassionately, but ultimately there wil still be fear there. I don't think it always boils down to fear of the unknown.


==> fear of loss of control ==> fear of death ==> fear of loss of identity. That's what I think :).

Vale bene!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:21 am

Salve Draco

On what do you base that immortal people can become depressed? You have a point saying that it was always there. Even immortals can dy. Cut their head off, and the immortal wil not likely to stand up again. If you look at the Two Towers, you definitly see that the elves also can dy from weapens like spears, arrows, etc...
==> fear of loss of control ==> fear of death ==> fear of loss of identity. That's what I think .

I couldn't agree with you more on this. But i think that fear of death comes forward from fear of lossing ones identity which in the end results to fear of the unknown. Fear of loss of control comes into place because we can not control how we can dy unless why commits suicide.
Vale

Romulus
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Rector ColRel
Rogator
Princeps gentis Aureliae
User avatar
Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 5:05 pm
Location: Ghent, Belgica

Postby Marcus Pomponius Lupus on Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:32 am

Salvete,

I still regard "death" as a myth. It's like cave men seeing lightning and hearing thunder during a storm. They can see the immediate effect of it, thunder makes noise, lightning brightens the sky for a second and can set things on fire, but they don't know what causes it. So, they begin making tales about it to explain these phenomena. One tribe will see it as an angered godlike creature, and another will perhaps see it as a good omen for the hunt.

Same story with death, we can see the effects of it, objects don't move anymore, don't speak anymore, tend to become pale,...we can determine what caused it in most cases, but what happens afterwards is still a mystery. Thus, stories are created to take away our fear. One (modern) tribe will think good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell, another tribe will think you get reborn,...

And that's pretty much all there's to it. I don't think science will ever get to find out what's there (although, has anyone seen "Flatliners" ? ;-)).

Fear of death is, in my opinion, not fear of being death (since you probably won't be able to regret being death), but fear of not living. At any point in your life, you still have a list in your mind of things to do, people to see, places to go and you want do to all that of course, you don't want to die yet. Not because of the "mysterious potential dangers that lie on the other side" - heck, you'll deal with that when you get there, but because you still want to do stuff on this world. Just imagine getting killed by a mad bee with a nasty sting right now, with all those things you had in mind to do....I know I would fear that idea and run.

Valete
Lupus
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Iurisconsultus
User avatar
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Eques
Eques
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:40 pm
Location: Belgica

"Death!" - "No, that's Maggie, Grandpa!"

Postby Q. C. Locatus Barbatus on Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:41 pm

Objections here!

Marcus Pomponius Lupus wrote: you still have a list in your mind of things to do

I would really like to know if I am the only one here who prepares himself for a sudden death every day. What I mean is: every time I walk out of my house I remember myself that this could have been the last time I saw it. Every time I see a person leave I prepare myself it could have been the last time I've seen him. This is not taking obsessive proportions, however, but I try to say goodbye to everything always so I never will regret anything. And every time I do so I do know that I wouldn't regret death because of the future, because I had a past.

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:However, since they know they are immortal, this could also mean something else: they could have learnt to cope with it (as they should) because it is an inate characteristic.


I took a while to understand what you meant, but I see it now. But I don't agree with this. The fact that you're immortal doesn't protect you from being hurt, getting depressions or getting tired of doing the same things over and over again.

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:
Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:As one famous person said, and I completely forget who, "The problem with common sense is that it's so common."



Funny. And I contend the opposite!


You misunderstand what I meant with "common sense". I also do not believe in "common sense" and I look upon public moral as something dispecable. I hate it when people say they speak 'out of name of the public morality'. :evil: Bah!!! I really hate it!!!
To get to the point, I meant with "common sense" things that are accepted by a population as being true. It is thus nothing individual.

Valete,

Locatus Barbatus
Quintus Claudius Locatus Barbatus
Rector
Princeps Gentis Claudiae
Consul
Senator
Patricius
Q. C. Locatus Barbatus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:32 pm
Location: Gent

Postby Marcus Pomponius Lupus on Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:02 pm

Salve Locate Barbate,

scripsisti:

every time I walk out of my house I remember myself that this could have been the last time I saw it. Every time I see a person leave I prepare myself it could have been the last time I've seen him. This is not taking obsessive proportions, however, but I try to say goodbye to everything always so I never will regret anything. And every time I do so I do know that I wouldn't regret death because of the future, because I had a past.


But nevertheless you as well would like to postpone your own death, nonne ? Accepting that you (and everyone around you) can die at any time can be meaningful in that you won't be utterly shocked and depressed when you lose one of your friends or family members, but I don't think it has much to do with the will to live. If any, it should make that will even stronger in my opinion.

For me it's simple, I want to live, because I like it and because I still want to do soooo much. I know as well that I can walk to school tomorrow and be run over by a truck, which goes for everyone I care about as well, but by no means does this make me less reluctant to die; on the contrary, whenever someone I cared about passed away I became more resolved to just *live* than before. And if it were possible to regret one's own death, then I would very much regret my own death (especially at this age ! )

Vale optime
Lupus
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Iurisconsultus
User avatar
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Eques
Eques
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:40 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:49 pm

Salve Locate Barbate!

Q. C. Locatus Barbatus wrote:... And every time I do so I do know that I wouldn't regret death because of the future, because I had a past.


Suppose that there is nothing after death, this position becomes as meaningless as any other. If you're dead, you don't care whether you've had a past or not. Of course, it *may* be a concern if you're dying and looking back at your life.

Q. C. Locatus Barbatus wrote:I took a while to understand what you meant, but I see it now. But I don't agree with this. The fact that you're immortal doesn't protect you from being hurt, getting depressions or getting tired of doing the same things over and over again.


I didn't say that. I said that they might not become depressed because of their being immortal, because it is part of their nature. Sure they can still become depressed about other things. That is, if they are humanoid enough.

Vale bene!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Curio Agelastus on Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:38 pm

Salvete omnes,

Firstly, if a human can get depressed about their mortality, when it is something we all have to face, and have always had to face, then immortal people could get depressed over their own immortality.

As for my own views on death: I have come to the conclusion that nothing matters. To justify this, I say that anything you do now will have no effect anyway, as you'll only get a hole in the ground eventually anyway. However, I'm not a nihilist. All this means is that I simply have some stuff that I'd like to do at some point, but I won't really mind if I die having not done all of them. To clarify, this simply means that I'm reconciled to the idea of death - which may be why I find immortality so repugnant. Had Einstein lived forever, he would have made the mistake which destroyed his reputation. History is littered with examples of people who lived too long, and thus destroyed their reputations; Marius, Ujiyasa, Yamato, and many others that I really can't remember at the moment. And why would Einstein want to live forever? Would the extra service given to mankind with his extra time for research justify the wasted millennia?

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
Marcus Scribonius Curio Agelastus
Rector ColHis, Senator

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
User avatar
Curio Agelastus
Senator
Senator
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:38 pm

Next

Return to Collegium Religionum et Philosophiarum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron