The Roman Gods

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The Roman Gods

Postby Anonymous on Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:13 am

Hello, all:

I'm new to your group (sorry if I didn't post thism in the correct section). Albeit not a Roman Reconstructionist, or even a Witch whom honours the pantheon of Roman Gods, I do respect Them, as I do all The Gods. I happenb to be a Celtic Witch- although you would call me a Wiccan, and you would not be incorrect, I prefer the appelation of "Witch" to "Wiccan". (I shall post a more formal Introduction in just a few moments.) However, I would like to further research The Roman Gods, Themselves, in books which are very well researched, and analized/discussed by scholars. Specifically those whom correspond to the 7 planets, and 7 days of the week: Mars, Venus (both of whom I hear were origionally Vegitation Gods, which I would love to further investigate), Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Luna (whom they identified with the Saxon Moon God, Mona, I hear, and would like to research this, as well), and....still researching this, but...any sun deities they may have identified with any other sun deities whom have given us our word for Sunday, such as (for example) Sunne and Sunna.

Best of Wishes,
Wade MacMorrighan
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:52 am

Salva sis Wicca

Welcome. The best place to make inquiries into the Roman deities is within the Collegium Religionis. Currently Orcus is presenting posts on the Hellenic gods, which would probably answer many of your questions. The gods of Rome anf those of Greece are often equated, although there remain subtle differences too.

The fourth planet called Mars today was usually thought by Romans to be identified with Hercules, who was perhaps, after Jupiter, the most popular Roman deity. Mars is generally mentioned by historians of Rome to have once been an agricultural deity, but there is more to it. He was called upon to protect and defend crops and famlands, and families, too. So He still had more of the warrior aspect even when related to agriculture. Rites to Mars are found in Cato's De Agricultura.

Venus was once a garden goddess called Mucia. In Etruria She was a goddess associated with marriage, especially with the chastity of brides. [Chastity is a little different in Roman mores than the Christian concept you are use to.] The Etruscan Venus is always depicted fully clothed and has Her mantle pulled across Her face and held in Her mouth, to form a veil, as a sign of Her chastity. During the First Punic War another Venus from ERyx in central Sicily was brought to Rome. This Venus Ericina is Phoenecian Astrate, transformed by the Greek colonizers of Sicily. She absorbed the attributes of the earlier Mucia and Venus, and later Her identification with Greek Aphrodite made Her more of a goddess of Love, but among the Romans She always retained Her identification with flowers of sweat scents, and connubial bliss (through Her chastity). Venus is associated with springtime, where a ceremony was held each year to restore Her virginity, as all women could have their virginity restored through Her.
And on and on, for more details...but just visit the Collegium Religionis where you wil find me as rector answer most questions on the Religio Romana.

Di deaeque te ament.
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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:30 pm

Moved this topic to where it belongs :).

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Postby Anonymous on Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:09 pm

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:Moved this topic to where it belongs :).

At your service,
Draco


Whew...thank goodness for E-Mail notifications. lol... Or I would've lost it. Heh heh heh...

Bless your heart (as my beloved late great Aunt would say),
Wade MacMorrighan
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Postby Anonymous on Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:27 pm

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Welcome. The best place to make inquiries into the Roman deities is within the Collegium Religionis.


Thank you for your kind welcome... And, I think I would have posted it here in the first place, but...it was late (my neurons weren't firing the way they ought to) and I was getting lost in the Roman Latin. lol... 8)

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Currently Orcus is presenting posts on the Hellenic gods, which would probably answer many of your questions. The gods of Rome anf those of Greece are often equated, although there remain subtle differences too.


Yup, that they are. However...I'm the wort who really likes to, and enjoys, citing his sources, and going to some very well thought of books. Although, I will certainly keep in mind anything he says, to later validate it, when I find it echoed by a Roman scholar. Because, I'm in the process of writing a book, and have sadly noticed that among many neo-pagans, even it what one's said is correct, if you don't back up your sources, they are cruel to you, and, as I say, "tear you a new eye socket." :shock: *sigh* And, people wonder where the love in our religion went to... Anyhoo...

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:The fourth planet called Mars today was usually thought by Romans to be identified with Hercules, who was perhaps, after Jupiter, the most popular Roman deity.


Really? How interesting! Heraklese was origionally a Greek deified sun hero, was he not? Because, I was always taught that His name means "beloved of Hera", or something along those lines. ;o) How did He come to represent Mars? And, how did Mars later come to replace Him aftyer the planet's very namesake? I also recently heard that in the Roman temple of the 7 planets, all of the Gods named after the planets are in there...or whatever, and I also found that fascinating, and would like to further research this.

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Mars is generally mentioned by historians of Rome to have once been an agricultural deity, but there is more to it. He was called upon to protect and defend crops and famlands, and families, too. So He still had more of the warrior aspect even when related to agriculture. Rites to Mars are found in Cato's De Agricultura.


Again, I find this so fascinating! SImilarly to how fascinati8ng I found a Rite to Zeus (this was on TV) where a boy would become a man in a rite in which he would first shave his full beard, catch it in a bowl, and then take it to the altar opf Zeus, where it was offered/sacrificed to Him. So, I find all of this sooooo fascinating, and would LOVE to live more! Ha!

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Venus was once a garden goddess called Mucia. In Etruria She was a goddess associated with marriage, especially with the chastity of brides. [Chastity is a little different in Roman mores than the Christian concept you are use to.] The Etruscan Venus is always depicted fully clothed and has Her mantle pulled across Her face and held in Her mouth, to form a veil, as a sign of Her chastity. During the First Punic War another Venus from ERyx in central Sicily was brought to Rome. This Venus Ericina is Phoenecian Astrate, transformed by the Greek colonizers of Sicily. She absorbed the attributes of the earlier Mucia and Venus, and later Her identification with Greek Aphrodite made Her more of a goddess of Love, but among the Romans She always retained Her identification with flowers of sweat scents, and connubial bliss (through Her chastity). Venus is associated with springtime, where a ceremony was held each year to restore Her virginity, as all women could have their virginity restored through Her. And on and on, for more details...but just visit the Collegium Religionis where you wil find me as rector answer most questions on the Religio Romana.


WOW! Again, albeit I am a Celtic Witch, I just find this all soooo fascinating! Heh heh heh...

Have a great day!
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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:04 pm

Salve,

Oh, btw, you may have noticed that we use odd greetings here but it's become so normal here that we barely pay attention to it :p. "Salve" means "hello" ("salvete" for more than one person) and "vale" means goodby ("valete" for more than one person).

WiccanWade wrote:Really? How interesting! Heraklese was origionally a Greek deified sun hero, was he not? Because, I was always taught that His name means "beloved of Hera", or something along those lines. ;o)


Well actually I'm primarily not into religion but I'm pretty sure Herakles' name doesn't mean "loved by Hera" because Hera hated Herakles, who was the offspring of Zeus and an earthly, mortal woman. It was Hera who drove Herakles mad and into killing his own children.

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Postby Anonymous on Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:12 pm

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:Salve,

Oh, btw, you may have noticed that we use odd greetings here but it's become so normal here that we barely pay attention to it :p. "Salve" means "hello" ("salvete" for more than one person) and "vale" means goodby ("valete" for more than one person).


Thanks for letting me know! Much appreciated...


Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:Well actually I'm primarily not into religion but I'm pretty sure Herakles' name doesn't mean "loved by Hera" because Hera hated Herakles, who was the offspring of Zeus and an earthly, mortal woman. It was Hera who drove Herakles mad and into killing his own children.


Oh, I was slightly incorrect, His name is Greek for "Hera's Glory". Quite a pretty translation, I think. :wink:
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:57 am

Salve (or is it slava sis?) Wade

Mea culpa, but I have not been able to tell from your posts, nor has your name given me a clue, on how you prefer to be thought. So where about are these farmlands you speak? And, too, you mentioned your goddess, but not by name. Which goddesses do you honor?



Yup, that they are. However...I'm the wort who really likes to, and enjoys, citing his sources, and going to some very well thought of books. Although, I will certainly keep in mind anything he says, to later validate it, when I find it echoed by a Roman scholar. Because, I'm in the process of writing a book, and have sadly noticed that among many neo-pagans, even it what one's said is correct, if you don't back up your sources, they are cruel to you, and, as I say, "tear you a new eye socket." :shock: *sigh* And, people wonder where the love in our religion went to... Anyhoo...[/quote}

Yes, and you would do well to check on my sources, too. I like to give my sources so that others may use them as they will, and I am not so infallible as not to make mistakes on occasion. I have often had a good laugh reading wiccan material with their confusion on the ancient deities, (the [i]Women's Guide to...{/i} comes to mind) and can also get upset at times with some of the more blatant misconstruing of older traditions.

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:The fourth planet called Mars today was usually thought by Romans to be identified with Hercules, who was perhaps, after Jupiter, the most popular Roman deity.


WiccanWade wrote:Really? How interesting! Heraklese was origionally a Greek deified sun hero, was he not?


Not really. He became identified in a solar mythology later, and his Labors have thus become interpreted as such. Roman Hercules is a hero deity. He took on attributes of earlier Italian heroes. Some say the Roman Hercules has some stories that originated with Phoenician Marqat, and I think the story of Hercules and Cacus may be that Hercules absorbed some of the tales of Cacus as well. You have to be a little careful of not confusing different times and places together. There was an evolution to the worship of Hercules, and for Jupiter and all the other gods and goddesses.



WiccanWade wrote:WOW! Again, albeit I am a Celtic Witch, I just find this all soooo fascinating! Heh heh heh...

Have a great day!


Well, we will try to keep you entertained.

Vale bene
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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:24 pm

Hi Wade,
forgive me if i offend you in any way, but i'm a little bit skeptic. You say that you are a Celtic witch, not a Wiccan? Does this mean that you worship the Celtic Gods are individual deities and not as part of one deity? I have read somewhere that people claiming to be Celtic witches aren't Celtic witches at all. Maybe you can explain something about Celtic witchcraft for those (like myself) who are not familiar with Celtic witchcraft? Don't take this as an insult or an attack on your beliefs, believe me that is not the intent here. I'm just curious that's all. The people that are here know more or less on Roman and Greek Gods and some are followers of these Gods. So a little bit of information on your path is appreciated. I'm always open to learn new things. You can ask the same question to me if you want? I don't mind.
vale optime
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Postby Anonymous on Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:07 am

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:So where about are these farmlands you speak? And, too, you mentioned your goddess, but not by name. Which goddesses do you honor?


Oh, I hadn't even realized that. I apologize... Anyhoo...I hail from Iowa. And, the Goddess whom I adore is The Morrighan. Which is why my Spiritual/Pagan/Witch name is Wade MacMorrighan. 8)
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:03 am

Salvete comreligiones

I ws looking for a place to put this, rather than begin a new thread. It seems an appropriate enough place. There are some reports coming in of the discovery of a Celto-Romano goddess no one had known of before. A shrine to Senua (Minerva) has recently been uncovered.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/sto ... 18,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds ... 199191.stm

Valete et vadete in pacem deorum
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Postby Anonymous on Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:23 am

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Salvete comreligiones

I ws looking for a place to put this, rather than begin a new thread. It seems an appropriate enough place. There are some reports coming in of the discovery of a Celto-Romano goddess no one had known of before. A shrine to Senua (Minerva) has recently been uncovered.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/sto ... 18,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds ... 199191.stm

Valete et vadete in pacem deorum


Yes, I know! Isn't it fabulous?!?!?!?!?! I, for one, am absolutely excitied, and can't wait to read any published material, by respective Celtic scholars, about Her!!! As well as the new Adonis-what's-jis-name, too! Which was found in Europe. The oldest God-statue, I believe there is! And, also cannot wait to read similar material, published by scholars, about Him, as well!!! WOO-HOO!!! Oh, and, thank you for posting those site...I'm copy and paste them, and mail them to myself, until I am able to print them, and keep them. 8)
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Postby Anonymous on Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:35 am

Oh, before I forget, someone posted another link about this find, however, I do not have adobee, or whatever, needed toopen it (because my computer's soooo slow), and I have not been able to read it, as yet. So...I was wondering if someone might be so generous as to, perhaps, copy 'n paste it here, or better yet (if there are photos along with it) into an MSN/Hotmail "rich text frmat and directly E-Mail it to me. This would be a wonderful help- and I would greatly appreciate it!

Be well...
Wade MacMorrighan

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/frien ... s/news.pdf
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:35 am

Salve Wiccane

WiccanWade wrote: As well as the new Adonis-what's-jis-name, too! Which was found in Europe. The oldest God-statue, I believe there is! And, also cannot wait to read similar material, published by scholars, about Him, as well!!! WOO-HOO!!!


The oldest statue of a god? That seems a bit of a tall claim for anyone to make (although hyperbole is often featured in reports of new finds). What time period are you refering to and where might I read about this?

Vale
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Postby Anonymous on Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:19 pm

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Salve Wiccane

WiccanWade wrote: As well as the new Adonis-what's-jis-name, too! Which was found in Europe. The oldest God-statue, I believe there is! And, also cannot wait to read similar material, published by scholars, about Him, as well!!! WOO-HOO!!!


The oldest statue of a god? That seems a bit of a tall claim for anyone to make (although hyperbole is often featured in reports of new finds). What time period are you refering to and where might I read about this?

Vale


Salvete!

I do not know about the oldest statues of Gods, but the oldest stone temples in the world are found in Melita (Malta) and if I am right the oldest temple is found on my island Gaudos (Gozo) at one of the neighbouring villages of my own village. This is a good site about the temples:

http://web.infinito.it/utenti/m/malta_mega_temples/

I am not sure but it could only feature the temples of the megalithic period, excluding the temples of the neolithic. I wonder how many temples in Gaudos and Melita were lost due to modern constructions. Eventually I heard that on our islands there were also temples to Juno.

Valete optime!
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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:36 pm

Salvete!

Just one remark: oldest temple? Depends on what the definition of a temple is? Was Stongehenge a temple? We might well never really know.

Vale!
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Postby Anonymous on Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:01 pm

Salve Draco!

Well, they are thougt of to be as temples of a last faith. The temple builders of Malta are lost, they vanished and since they lived in pre-history we do not know anything of their fate, and the faith they practiced either. I think Stonehenge could have been a temple, but that would be a mystery indeed. The temples of Malta are stone structures, in fact they are the oldest erect stone structures in the world, most probably temples.

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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:12 pm

I hadn't suspected that behind Malta! 8)

How old are they?

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Postby Anonymous on Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:31 pm

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:The oldest statue of a god? That seems a bit of a tall claim for anyone to make (although hyperbole is often featured in reports of new finds). What time period are you refering to and where might I read about this?

Vale


Well, I'm going off of mere memory, here, in that, according to the article, it is a statue of a God, from a time, recently found, in which no depictions of Gods had been found (being that only female Gods had been found from that preiod). But, again, this is from memory, which is far from infallable. 8)
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Postby Anonymous on Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:43 pm

Lucius Aurelius Flavus wrote:Salvete!

I do not know about the oldest statues of Gods, but the oldest stone temples in the world are found in Melita (Malta) and if I am right the oldest temple is found on my island Gaudos (Gozo) at one of the neighbouring villages of my own village. This is a good site about the temples:

http://web.infinito.it/utenti/m/malta_mega_temples/

I am not sure but it could only feature the temples of the megalithic period, excluding the temples of the neolithic. I wonder how many temples in Gaudos and Melita were lost due to modern constructions. Eventually I heard that on our islands there were also temples to Juno.

Valete optime!


Surely, nothing breaks my heart more than the desacration/demolition of sacred sites and temples, et al. No matter from which culture. Because, they were surely built out of love. A love for one's Gods. To quote Herman Slater (and, I love this quote, by the way), "The relationship between a worshipper and her own gods shall be sacred and inviolable, provided only that in the love of one's own gods, one does not curse the names of the gods of others." Incidentally, I actually have had someone do something like that, in that they threatened me with their Goddess. Basically, pitting hers against mine (the Morrighan). I'm surprised no one laughed her off-line! Seriously! And, surprised even more-so, in that everyone whom seems to physically know her, alledges hat she's a "trained priestess". It seems behavior unbefitting of such an appelation, IMHO. (Insert sarcasm, here): "Oh, yeah...Eis is really gonna' kick The Morrighan's butt, or The Morrighan is not going to protect me from Eris' advances." Well, basically, she also said that Eris will protect her, as her true "survitor," whereas The Morrighan would not, asserting that Morrighan does not view me as Herr "survitor" (her words). *groan* SOME people! *shakes his head*

Be well, all of you...
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