The extent of Lucifer

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The extent of Lucifer

Postby Lucius Tyrrhenus Garrulus on Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:50 am

Salvete omnes! S.V.B.E.V.
I was reading on this site how Venus, and almost all of her mythos, was brought to Italy in 217 BCE.
Now, Pliny the Elder, says that Venus arising before the dawn is called Lucifer. To me, this seems no more than an astrological term. Right?
Question 1) Was Lucifer just the Latin version of the Greek Phosphoros?
Question 2) If not, was there actual worship of Lucifer in the Religio Romana, or private worship of Lucifer documented?

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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:04 pm

Salve Tyrrhene,

Before I answer, the usual caveat that I'm not a religio expert but answer from the top of my head.

1. I also think it's no more than an astrological term. In fact, Venus also had a name as evening star but I forgot that name.

2. Phosphoros? May very well be.

3. Gods were often worshipped or mentioned under other aliases, or with an added nickname to their usual names, but it would seem unlikely to me that Lucifer had a seperate form of worship. Although stars and planets had names of deities or mythological figures, I'm not aware that stars and/or planets themselves were worshipped.

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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:08 pm

Salve
Now, Pliny the Elder, says that Venus arising before the dawn is called Lucifer. To me, this seems no more than an astrological term. Right?

You are probably correct on that one.
Question 1) Was Lucifer just the Latin version of the Greek Phosphoros?

Yes he was depending on how you see it. My guess is that Lucifer was only identified with Phosphoros and later assimilated Phosphoros. So at one time they could have been seperate deities.
Question 2) If not, was there actual worship of Lucifer in the Religio Romana, or private worship of Lucifer documented?

I'm not really sure. I don't know as much of the Religio Romana as our good friend Piscinus, but i don't think there was a cult of Lucifer. Maybe a private one, but not a public one. I think that Lucifer is one of those deities who were honored but rarely worshiped in any kind of cult. It is possible that Phosphoros was considered a daimone or something similar- probably a nature spirit of some kind.
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Re: The extent of Lucifer

Postby Horatius Piscinus on Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:35 pm

Salve Luci Garrule

Lucius Tyrrhenus Garrulus wrote:Question 2) If not, was there actual worship of Lucifer in the Religio Romana, or private worship of Lucifer documented?


I sincerely hope that you are not confusing that term with its later use by Christians. There are no devils, demons or daimones for that matter in the Religio Romana, and certainly no Prince of Darkness or absolute Evil as in dualistic religions. The very idea of an evil god is alien to the Religio Romana. Lucifer means "bringer of light" and in early Christian texts the name was used to describe Jesus as the bringer of spiritual light. The term was then subverted by the heretical Christians that overthrew the Pauline tradition.

Among the antiquiti the term Lucifer was used primarily for the planets Venus or Mercury, although it could be used for any star at its heliacal rising. The religious calendar of the Religio Romana is lunar just as the calendars of Islam and Judaism. The agricultural calendar was however set by the rising and setting of certain stars, and on these occasions certain religious rites were performed. Such is note in Virgil's Georgic I, in Varro's De Rustica, by Pliny in the Natural History and by Ovid. Perhaps the best example is that found in Ovid's Fasti for Robigalia and the rising of Sirius. The sun and moon and planets are symbols of the Gods and thus when an individual first sees them at night the practice was to offer a simple adoratio to their respective deity. Thus seeing the planet Venus for the first time at night, inspired with its reminder of the goddess, one should perform an adoratio - i. e. a kissing of the hand and raising it to the direction of the image - and perhaps offer a small libation as well to Venus

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Postby Lucius Tyrrhenus Garrulus on Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:10 am

Salve Marce.
Rest assured there's no confusion of that type here. (More like disproving C.G. Leland.)
I'm off to search for the works Georgic I, De Rustica and Fasti, and will consult some Hellenismos on Phosphoros.
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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:51 am

Salve Luci Garrule

I don't think there is much out there on Phosphoros besides his lineage and his relation to the planet Venus or Mercury. So far i know, there isn't much out there on this deity but you are free to look it up.
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Morning Star

Postby C.AeliusEricius on Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:36 am

Salvete.

My dictionary [New College L & E Dict] says Lucifer = the morning star, and that Lucifer = planet Venus. There is an astronomical problem with this book definition, though it is one that the non-astronomically inclined often make.

The Morning Star is not always Venus. Sometimes it is Jupiter, second in brightness to Venus. The morning star is usually considered, by us laymen, to be the bright star [read planet] that rises just before sunrise. Bright enough to still be seen as the dawn sky lightens as the Sun rises. I do not know if Sirius, a true star, is ever the mornign star, but it is another of the very brightest objects in the heavens. Of course sometimes the morning star is actually a 747.

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