philosophy and their importance to polytheists

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salvete

I was wondering, if anyone here think that philosophy is usefull for modern day polytheists. The reason why I ask this, because I'm having a discussion with someone on Platonism, Neoplatonism and he states that Plato is useless for modern day polytheists and for anyone who loves Greek culture.
I was just wondering what everyone here thought about it. I didn't know where to put this. So i post it here.
valete optime
Romulus

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

he states that Plato is useless for modern day polytheists and for anyone who loves Greek culture.

One may not like Plato or his philosophy, but this statement is so absurd that it makes me laugh. Plato had a profound impact on all philosophers who came after him and left his footprint firmly in European culture.

Draco

[Quintus Pomponius Atticus]

Salvete,

I think it is rather foolish to proclaim that Plato is useless for all polytheists. Every polytheist (and non-polytheist) should consider for himself how he values Plato.

Personally, I am not much in favour of his transcendental and often rightist way of thought, though I do respect him for his high-minded ideal of "the wise man", for his dialectic* (I think I could belong to the sceptical New Academy) and for his style of his writing. Although he can be rather tiresome in the eristic parts, the composition of his works is often very keen and his descriptive passages more than once contain superb pieces of literature.

The assertion that enthousiasts of Greek civilisation can simply forget about Plato almost dismisses itself. Plato's works are important sources for the study of Greek spiritual and social life, for their political thinking, etc. Dickinson's "The Greek Way of Thought" (which is a study of Greek mentality) I mentioned earlier on this forum e.g. quotes him regularely.

Vale,

Atticus

*Which, surely, derives from Socrates, but he left us no writings.

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salve Draco

Really, you should join the Hellenic Pagan yahoo! group and tell Anthony (the one who hates and despises Plato) that what you think. I'm pretty sure he will attack you for your beliefs as he did others. I lean towards Neoplatonism myself. I will copy some of the things he said on this topic:
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Have you ever asked yourself why you lean towards the Idea of Plato?
The man was a monotheist and a moral absolutist who was against
everything that was "Greek" in his own time. He was a miserable man
who distrusted the world of the senses, who taught that poetry and
art were "imperfect approaches to reality" and who beleived that
democracy and rule by the people was stupid and chaotic, and thought
that the perfect society was one where an elite few governed everyone-
a totally tyranny. Why do you like Plato so much, except for the fact that all
scholarship nowadays seems to think that "Plato is so great", without
ever stopping to see the reality? Aside from the fact that people
think they look intelligent by claiming to understand and "like"
Plato? There is almost NOTHING to like in Plato if you are a modern
day polytheist, or a person who loves ancient Greek Culture- because
Plato was against practically everything that was Heroic and Artistic
ABOUT ANCIENT GREECE of his time. Christians LOVE Plato, because he was a monotheist and a moral
absolutist. Are you a monotheist or a moral absolutist? Why do you care about all the different Gods? Plato didn't think that
there were different Gods. He would have let you believe in them, but
he would have laughed at you behind your back. He was a monolatrous,
shithead.
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This comes from a guy who probably thinks the books by Kingsley are a kind of bible and anyone who doesn't like it, get severly criticized for it by him. I have a serious beef with this guy because to me he is the most arrogant and agressive person i have ever met. He actually dares to come to a pagan list preaching how they got it wrong and he doesn't. He actually follows the books by Kingsley word by word. Its rather pathetic if you come to think of it. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who has a beef with him.
vale
Romulus

[Quintus Pomponius Atticus]

Salve Orce,

A criticism of your correspondent:

Have you ever asked yourself why you lean towards the Idea of Plato? The man was a monotheist and a moral absolutist who was against
everything that was "Greek" in his own time.

1) Nothing in his writings could suggest that Plato was a monotheist. On the other hand he cannot be said to be an orthodox polytheist either, if any 'orthodox polytheist' ever lived in Hellas that is.
2) If he was a moral absolutist, then why did he write the Lysis, the Charmides and other such 'sceptical' dialogues (it was them who inspired Carneades and others to read Plato as a great sceptic) in which no conclusion is arrived at ?
3) If Plato wasn't Greek for being so transcendentally inspired, as is often said, then Pythagoras, Hesiodos, Aeschylos, Socrates and numerous others were 'un-Greek' as well. If he was un-Greek for his political beliefs, then Sparta, on which his ideal republic was largely based, cannot be said to be "Greek" as well, an inference which would be rather hard to substantiate...

He was a miserable man who distrusted the world of the senses, who taught that poetry and art were "imperfect approaches to reality" and who beleived that democracy and rule by the people was stupid and chaotic, and thought that the perfect society was one where an elite few governed everyone-a totally tyranny. Why do you like Plato so much, except for the fact that all scholarship nowadays seems to think that "Plato is so great", without ever stopping to see the reality? Aside from the fact that people think they look intelligent by claiming to understand and "like" Plato?

I thought the Plato-idolatry among scholars had ceased generations ago, frankly. I read little of it in recent publications anyway.

There is almost NOTHING to like in Plato if you are a modern
day polytheist, or a person who loves ancient Greek Culture- because
Plato was against practically everything that was Heroic and Artistic
ABOUT ANCIENT GREECE of his time.

I would rather call his achievement heroic and artistic itself. Also, Plato - in my opinion - tried to safeguard the heroic and the artistic, which he saw to be degrading in his days, mainly due to the influence of the sophists, who were just as "Greek" as Plato was by the way.

Also, whereas he was critical about poetry,music etc., he did not want the arts to dissapear in his ideal Republic. Rather, he thought poetry and music should always contain a proper moral content. What he criticised where the "lies" of the poets and their wording immoral facts or opinions, not the artistic aspect of their work.

Vale,

Q. Pomponius Atticus

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salve Attice

Thnx for responding. I think that Anthony forgets that Plato is a philosopher. Anyway, this guy iis truly annoying. I truly hope he never finds his way here because than we will be the savage people he must educate in the ways of Kingsley's Hellenismos.
I found one book on Kingsley in the library and I will check it out myself what can a man he is. From what I read of the reviews on Amazon, Kinglsey has a beef with Plato and writes almost all his books second hand. I even heard that the author wants to create a line of thinking for the reader, instead of letting the reader think for himself, etc...
So for your sake, I will not ask you for permission to send this to him, because he will only attack and ridicule you for your thoughts.
vale
Romulus

[Quintus Aurelius Orcus]

Salvete

To get back on the issue; How much of an influence does philosophy has on modern day polytheists?
I for one, admit that I'm influenced by Neoplatonic thought in the likes of Plotinus. I also should admit, that I haven't looked any other Neoplatonist up, but that will be something for this summer. I guess, i'm going to have a buzy summer: working, painting, reading different books on different topics.
valete optime
Romulus