Translation?

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Translation?

Postby Anonymous on Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:26 am

Salvete Omnes.

This is just a quick post to say hallo and to ask your help in translating a small piece of latin. I found this on a postcard many years ago, it was a piece of calligraphy, I don't know if it is genuinely Roman or something later, but it did refer to Minerva 'sprung from the head of Jove'. The rest I need some help with...!

'Qvia per incarnati verbi mysterivm nova mentis nostra oculis lux tvae claritatis infulsit'

Any help with this would be very appreciated as my latin is decidedly 'dog'
also if anybody has any idea where this passage came from or who wrote it I would be very grateful.

Valete

Symmachus
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Wolf-scratch

Postby Aldus Marius on Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:03 am

Ave, Symmache bone!

For dog-Latin I am at least a little useful, as my nickname here and totem are both the Wolf. >({|;-)

For the task at hand, I have not hit the dictionaries yet, but I think I've picked up enough of the sense of the thing to perhaps place it in time and intent...


> 'Qvia per incarnati verbi mysterivm nova mentis nostra oculis lux tvae claritatis infulsit'


We've already got an identifiable '...incarnati verbi mysterium...', which is a traditional way of referring to Christ Jesus: "The Mystery of the Incarnate Word." So the context of this thing is likely Christian, unless Mithras carries similar titles. So the first half goes, "By the Mystery of the Incarnate Word", vel simile (or somethin' like that).

I don't quite get the midsection; but most of the tail-end looks like "...Your Light [somethings] clarity to our eyes." The [something] sorta depends on what infulsit means.

That's as much help as I can be so far on the subject; I'm in road mode at the moment and away from my references. Perhaps you could tell us what's depicted on the postcard...? --I'm sure the graphic and the inscription will be related.

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Re: Wolf-scratch

Postby Horatius Piscinus on Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:29 am

Salvete Mari et Symmache



Marius Peregrine wrote:
> 'Qvia per incarnati verbi mysterivm nova mentis nostra oculis lux tvae claritatis infulsit'


My guess "Because the Light of your (female) eyes spread forth, by the Mystery of the Word made Incarnate, anew (are) our minds (made) lucid."


Marius Peregrine wrote:We've already got an identifiable '...incarnati verbi mysterium...', which is a traditional way of referring to Christ Jesus: "The Mystery of the Incarnate Word." So the context of this thing is likely Christian, unless Mithras carries similar titles. So the first half goes, "By the Mystery of the Incarnate Word", vel simile (or somethin' like that).


Certainly Christian. Logos translated into Latin as 'verbum' rather than retain the Greek would make this Christian. The reference to a female Light is probably to Sophia, the Wisdom. In Greek philosophy there was the Sige (the Silence), the Ennoia (or Pronoina, being the Voice or the Wisdom), that manifested in the demiurgic god called the Logos. 'Logos' as 'the Word' is one literal translation, it can also mean 'the measure' by which chaos was transformed into order. The quote seems to refer back to a passage I think in Mark, "But first alter your mind" in order to suffer the second death and be reborn. The first death was when the spirit was placed into a physical form, and the spirit is then reborn, set free as it were, upon the second death. In order to be reborn, however, one must first attain this life-transforming gnosis that only comes from the Sophia, who is the female aspect of the godhead. In the early church the Holy Ghost was regarded as female and called Hagia Sophia. "Infulsit" I take to be a form of "infundit" meaning "to spread out from" and would go along with an ealier idea that the eyes directed light out in order to illuminate objects, rather than received reflected light.

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Re. Translation

Postby Anonymous on Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:20 am

Salvete Mari et Marce.

Many thanks gentlemen for your insights as to the origins of this piece, it has set me thinking that it does refer rather well to Metis, being 'Counsel', 'Wisdom' and the brilliance of Minerva's birth, which certainly had an enlightening effect on the company of the Gods!

Also thinking of the divine word, there could be an echo of the Egyptian Goddess Neit here, She Is the one Goddess who has a fully formed creation myth attached to her, She spoke creation into manifestation and was ultimately linked with the birth of the Sun. The Greeks equated her with Athena...

Just musing...:)

Many thanks again.

Valete.

Symmachus.
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:39 pm

Salve Symmache

Greek philosophy evolved over a period of time through the natural discourse over ideas. Certainly Egypt had some influence on that process as both Pythagorans and Platonists attest, and when you consider that the centers of Greek philosophical schools in later periods were at Alexandria and the coastal cities of Syria.

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